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Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

  1. #191
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I've got a question about all this.

    Let's say that there are 10 bakeries in the local area. Nine of the bakeries are pretty generic but one specializes in Christian themed goods. They primarily make cakes, cookies and cupcakes decorated with angels, crosses and other Christian themed adornment. They don't have a sign on their door or anything that says "Christians Only" but it's pretty obvious what their business model is. Now a gay couple decides to get married. They have been very active in the "gay rights" movement and want to make a statement so they intentionally choose this particular baker to provide a cake for their wedding because they are sure that there will be resistance. Sure enough, the Christian baker turns the job down based on their religious convictions.

    Now here's the question,
    in this scenario who is discriminating against whom?


    Who was denied service that was freely given to others?




    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself."
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Everyone ignored it because it was a really poor analogy. No one is forcing the actress from seeking working the the "Adult film company". She can refuse to work because he need not apply with them in the first place.

    As far as your first part here. There is no violation of their freedom of religion rights. They are free to practice their religion. The government is not saying they are not allowed to worship.
    What they can't do...and what it appears that you are trying to do...is use their religion as a shield to practice their bigotry and discrimination. You can't claim that your religion requires you to practice bigotry and therefore you are above the law.
    No no no. She's a contract employee holding herself out to the public and this customer really wants her to do the job. It is against her values and you recognize that, but you won't recognize the others. I wonder why that is? I know, I just like playing coy.
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    When you open up a business to the public, you have an obligation to serve the public. You don't get to pick and choose which members of the public you serve.
    Unconvincing argument is unconvincing.
    Said the florists, who are now bankrupt on account of their settlements for violating public accommodation laws.
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Said the florists who are now bankrupt on account of their settlements.
    Doesn't mean the states argument was convincing.

    The argument that someone must serve others is just not terribly convincing, sorry.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    You do know that's satire I hope.
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You do know that's satire I hope.
    Yes, but the best satire is the satire that's juuust that close to being believable.
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    You have the freedom to discriminate, you just can't run a discriminatory business. Besides which, there is no religious justification for denying service to gays. Stop blowing the religious freedom horn and just own the fact that you hate people that look / act differently than you.
    Really? Are you free to run background checks on potential tenants and exclude them based on credit reports or prior criminal history? Is that not discrimination? Are you free to discriminate based on whether or not they have children? Is a retirement community able to discriminate based on age? Are womens gyms able to discriminate based on gender?

    Discrimination occurs every day.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    No no no. She's a contract employee holding herself out to the public and this customer really wants her to do the job. It is against her values and you recognize that, but you won't recognize the others. I wonder why that is? I know, I just like playing coy.
    You have a fundamentally flawed concept of how public accommodation laws work. You're trying to paint this in some kind of black and white universe where either every religious belief must be respected or nobody is allowed to follow any religious belief. I'm actually having a hard time describing your problem, because you are so far off the mark that you aren't even in the same universe as public accommodation laws.

    An actress is an employee, not a customer. She can choose not to work for a porn company. There's no problem with that.

    The company, on the other hand, can't refuse to sell her porn because she's a woman. Or because she's Jewish. Or latino. Similarly, the company cannot refuse to hire her because she's Jewish, or latino, or a woman. (although porn isn't a great example, because it would fall under the Bona Fide Occupational Qualification exemption. A female role, whether in adult films or the regular kind, needs to be played by a female so the business can in fact refuse to hire men for that particular position. get it. position?)
    Last edited by Deuce; 03-31-15 at 05:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Well, certainly the customer is not an N-word.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You know her?

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Really? Are you free to run background checks on potential tenants and exclude them based on credit reports or prior criminal history? Is that not discrimination? Are you free to discriminate based on whether or not they have children? Is a retirement community able to discriminate based on age? Are womens gyms able to discriminate based on gender?

    Discrimination occurs every day.
    Please explain how being gay is analagous to being a credit risk and/or a having criminal history. I am entirely willing to follow you into Wonderland. Lets go.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Really? Are you free to run background checks on potential tenants and exclude them based on credit reports or prior criminal history? Is that not discrimination? Are you free to discriminate based on whether or not they have children? Is a retirement community able to discriminate based on age? Are womens gyms able to discriminate based on gender?

    Discrimination occurs every day.
    Oh look, another one who thinks the world is black and white.

    Public accommodation laws protect race, gender, religion, and in many states sexuality. That's it. Are you discriminating on the basis of one of those characteristics? if so, you're in trouble. Any other characteristic? Go for it. You can kick someone out of your business for having red hair. That's legal. Enjoy.

    Women's gyms tend to fall under exemptions based on privacy, wherein the gym is treated like a locker room or bathroom. Although I assume this varies by state.
    Last edited by Deuce; 03-31-15 at 05:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Well, certainly the customer is not an N-word.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You know her?

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