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Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    A short while ago Gov. Mike Pence held a press conference to say that he asking for legislation by the end of the week to clarify the RFRA law he signed last week. Key in his statement:


    Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Ok then. If that is the "fix" he signs, we're good to go and all arguments to the contrary, that the law was intended to permit the denial of service to anyone under the color of religious freedom, were in error.
    Hi Gina. It's an interesting question. Do we believe people should be able to operate their business according to their own moral/ethical beliefs or does someone lay down those rights as soon as they start a business? I really don't know the right answer or if there even is one. There's a restaurant close by where I work that has Bible verses and sayings posted all over it. Should they be mandated to take that all down if someone says they're offended? The reality of life, I think, is that two very valid worthwhile rights can sometimes conflict and one must necessarily give way to the other and that's always going to cause tension.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    A short while ago Gov. Mike Pence held a press conference to say that he asking for legislation by the end of the week to clarify the RFRA law he signed last week.
    There is nothing like shooting first and asking questions later...
    If nothing else this proves the stupidity of the Indiana legislators and governor who managed to pass a law that need to be revised so soon.
    My views are my views, then there is the Christian view:
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Of course the third world dregs are breeding like rabbits.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I've got a question about all this.

    Let's say that there are 10 bakeries in the local area. Nine of the bakeries are pretty generic but one specializes in Christian themed goods. They primarily make cakes, cookies and cupcakes decorated with angels, crosses and other Christian themed adornment. They don't have a sign on their door or anything that says "Christians Only" but it's pretty obvious what their business model is. Now a gay couple decides to get married. They have been very active in the "gay rights" movement and want to make a statement so they intentionally choose this particular baker to provide a cake for their wedding because they are sure that there will be resistance. Sure enough, the Christian baker turns the job down based on their religious convictions.

    Now here's the question, in this scenario who is discriminating against whom?
    It could also be in that scenario that:

    1. The gay couple are themself christians and like the christian theme.

    2. They are openminded and don't believe that all christians hate gays.

    Also that if you live in a small town and their are only one bakery should then redheads, blacks, blue eyed or people taller then 6 feet have to go to another town if they want bread and cakes if the owner for some reason want to discriminate against whos groups?

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    A short while ago Gov. Mike Pence held a press conference to say that he asking for legislation by the end of the week to clarify the RFRA law he signed last week. Key in his statement:


    Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Ok then. If that is the "fix" he signs, we're good to go and all arguments to the contrary, that the law was intended to permit the denial of service to anyone under the color of religious freedom, were in error.
    Only liberals assume freedom = discrimination. What does that tell you?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    It could also be in that scenario that:

    1. The gay couple are themself christians and like the christian theme.

    2. They are openminded and don't believe that all christians hate gays.

    Also that if you live in a small town and their are only one bakery should then redheads, blacks, blue eyed or people taller then 6 feet have to go to another town if they want bread and cakes if the owner for some reason want to discriminate against whos groups?
    That's pretty much avoiding the whole question. In the scenario I presented who is discriminating against whom? More importantly, should the rights of the person or people who are being discriminated against be protected?

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    As I just wrote, the people...and larger organizations...spoke out and indicated they would remove their business and other activities perhaps, from the state.

    It would be interesting to see what would happen if people were indeed given license to discriminate against serving the people they felt they should not have to do business with.

    They would apply for a different type of business license and then be required to post the group(s) they do not want to serve in a publicly visible place, just like 'no shoes, no shirt, no service.' Like, "we dont serve women here.' Or 'we dont serve Jews here." Or 'we dont serve gays here.' Or 'we dont serve blacks here.'

    That would be perfectly legal with that type of business license. Then we could see if society in general would support these businesses or not. The fewer businesses with similar services/products in competition in an area would affect this as well but I'd be willing to bet people would go out of their way to avoid such businesses if they disagreed with what was posted. I know I would. I do it now regarding 'no guns allowed' signs even when not carrying.
    I would too, for real, and I think calling for and organizing boycotts or demonstrations would be a perfectly valid response (just as organizing in support of that business would also be).

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Only liberals assume freedom = discrimination. What does that tell you?
    You have the freedom to discriminate, you just can't run a discriminatory business. Besides which, there is no religious justification for denying service to gays. Stop blowing the religious freedom horn and just own the fact that you hate people that look / act differently than you.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I've got a question about all this.

    Let's say that there are 10 bakeries in the local area. Nine of the bakeries are pretty generic but one specializes in Christian themed goods. They primarily make cakes, cookies and cupcakes decorated with angels, crosses and other Christian themed adornment. They don't have a sign on their door or anything that says "Christians Only" but it's pretty obvious what their business model is. Now a gay couple decides to get married. They have been very active in the "gay rights" movement and want to make a statement so they intentionally choose this particular baker to provide a cake for their wedding because they are sure that there will be resistance. Sure enough, the Christian baker turns the job down based on their religious convictions.

    Now here's the question, in this scenario who is discriminating against whom?
    The Christian bakery would be discriminating against the gay couple. The gay couple would be not be discriminating but they are, yes, making a statement.

    I have an issue with scenarios like this. The argument has been made over and over, let business owners discriminate and if the marketplace of consumers doesn't like it, that business will suffer. The marketplace will speak and all will be righted.

    So, here we have businesses who are doing just that, and there is an outcry when the marketplace speaks.

    It soul crushing to hear my LGBT and non-white family, friends and acquaintances tell me of the bigotry they are routinely confronted with, so I will not condemn those who choose to confront it. Despite the quoted scenario.

    So have at me.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Hi Gina. It's an interesting question. Do we believe people should be able to operate their business according to their own moral/ethical beliefs or does someone lay down those rights as soon as they start a business?
    I really do not think it is a question of rights. Think of it this way. A person can go into the middle of nowhere and open a business and fail but can do pretty much anything (s)he pleases.
    Now the same person chooses to open the same business in the "middle of society" because that offers a clear benefit, safety, good environment for business, etc. etc. It is only right to "have a price" for that benefit and that price is regulations and laws that protect society while anyone conducts their business. Also important to note is that safety and order in society must come first and justly so, otherwise who would want to do business there. Part of that order is nondiscrimination. If a person is so devout to a particular faith that they do want to pick and choose, there are ways for them to do it. Unfortunately many want the benefit of doing business in a safe open society but without contributing to it.
    My views are my views, then there is the Christian view:
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Of course the third world dregs are breeding like rabbits.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Only liberals assume freedom = discrimination. What does that tell you?
    Well pure freedom absolutely would mean the freedom to discriminate.

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