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Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Custom in what sense...be specific. Its difficult to respond in a vacuum.
    Custom, as in, everything is chosen for the cake. There is no cakes that they make for wedding that people can pick from, no predetermined items that they provide, just nothing but we offer wedding cakes and we get to say what will do and what we will not do for it. In short, every cake starts with a blank slate and nothing is a given.

    The best your side can do is to say they have to make the cake anyway, but your supporting evidence for your argument is destroyed. Don't worry, you guys aren't smart enough for me to not come up with a solution around you the rest of the way.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-31-15 at 04:46 PM.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    If your religion requires you to be a bigot and discriminate fine...just don't open a business. You don't get to write your own rules and hide behind your religion just because you open shop.
    What part of the Constitution allows the government to require you to passively give up your rights in order to participate in commerce?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    There isn't much discrimination anymore, but the reason for that is most of it was made illegal and business has adapted to that - it's become a marketplace norm. For the vast majority of the population rules protect sexual orientation in addition to race, religion, etc. The point is the laws reflect our beliefs as a community and our expectations and they have worked. It would be IMO a huge mistake to assume because the laws have worked that we can repeal those laws. If we accept discrimination as legal, we are (as I see it) sending a community signal that it's OK. That's a step in the wrong direction.
    I agree, our laws have gone a long way towards eliminating discrimination. We just have to go a bit farther and indeed, repealing any of it would be a mistake. Just look at the response to this law in Indiana. There is an entire discussion based on how iron clad it was instituting discrimination that could not be overturned by the judiciary. People jumped all over this assuring us that legal discrimination was the intention of the law. So, no. Repeal would send our society catapulting backwards.
    Ricky John Best and Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche
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    I have no personal connection to these men. Ricky and Taliesin died and Micah was severely injured because they chose not to sit by silently, instead, they chose to confront hate. My condolences to their families for their tremendous loss and my best wishes to Micah for a full recovery and long, fruitful life.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    No. I am speaking of religion. No religion says "follow my rules why you are at worship." Religion is a 24/7, 365 prospect.
    At worship, yes. Not work. Worship is not involved in operating a business.
    Ricky John Best and Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche
    Micah David-Cole Fletcher
    I have no personal connection to these men. Ricky and Taliesin died and Micah was severely injured because they chose not to sit by silently, instead, they chose to confront hate. My condolences to their families for their tremendous loss and my best wishes to Micah for a full recovery and long, fruitful life.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    What part of the Constitution allows the government to require you to passively give up your rights in order to participate in commerce?
    What rights are you being "passively required to give up"?

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    At worship, yes. Not work. Worship is not involved in operating a business.
    I'm sorry, but no. It doesn't work that way.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    What rights are you being "passively required to give up"?
    1st Amendment.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Custom, as in, everything is chosen for the cake. There is no cakes that they make for wedding that people can pick from, no predetermined items that they provide, just nothing but we offer wedding cakes and we get to say what will do and what we will not do for it. In short, every cake starts with a blank slate and nothing is a given.

    The best your side can do is to say they have to make the cake anyway, but your supporting evidence for this is destroyed. Don't worry, you guys aren't smart enough for me to not come up with a solution around you the rest of the way.
    Not at all. It doesn't change the scenario. They open their shop to the public for business. They provide cakes. They can't refuse to provide a cake just because the person is black or brown or asian or muslim or gay or........

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    1st Amendment.
    What part of the first amendment?

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    What part of the Constitution allows the government to require you to passively give up your rights in order to participate in commerce?
    Answer: Nowhere.

    And to all that think that Indiana is going to tweak the language, the truth is that the purpose of the law is to provide a legal remedy (Defense) for those that turn away business based on their religious convictions. I don't see how you can tweak that premise without shredding the entire law? I'll listen to possible scenarios though, anyone want to share just how they are going to tweak it whilst maintaining a law that provide for religious expression as a defense?

    I'm listening?

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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