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US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

MMC said:
Well, when one is projecting a policy of incoherency and when one has increased the risk of harm to our people, our interests, and our National Security.

Then it is not a waste of time noting it.....for the record. While allowing BO to absorb that impact.
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It would be a gigantic distraction. Easily a week or more of the media circus and would (justifiably) tar the Republican leadership as uninterested in actually governing. All so that at the end of the day 10,000,000 chain emails could reverberate around the country claiming the triumph of 'censuring' the President. Which is a fictitious punishment anyways.
 
mbig said:
IOW, he still did Not "insult" the President. His first few statements were all in Praise/thx of Obama.
"Moreover" and again, I put the numbers in perspective, you Disingenuously totaled 67 Years (without saying it was) to the make it look bigger. (Along with per-Israeli-citizen)

Ahh a New gratuitous charge.
And Not really.
The Neocons, who supported the War in the name of spreading democracy, also support Israel.
see:
Don't Blame the Iraq Debacle on the Israel Lobby - FPIF
and
Wiki:
"Whether AIPAC lobbied for the war in Iraq is Disputed. Congressman Jim Moran has stated that AIPAC had been "pushing the [Iraq War] from the beginning".[31] However, according to the Jewish News, AIPAC never supported or lobbied for the war in Iraq.[32] According to a columnist in the Washington Post, "Once it was clear that the Bush administration was determined to go to war [in Iraq], AIPAC cheered from the SIDELINES" [21]​
and:
Sharon and others had Correctly/Consistently said at the time, even THEN, Iran was a bigger threat.
Iraq war | Martin Kramer on the Middle East



As I said, he was grateful in his speech, but this issue - Iran Nukes - is Life and death to Israel.


As I've said previously, I was against Netanyahu coming and speaking. It was a violation of protocol/s in my book.
But he gave an excellent and well-reasoned speech that, also again, was a once in a generation life-and-death issue for his country.

I might add, he was also 100% correct. Obama was clearly going to fold, make a toothless agreement-for-agreements sake.
If anything came of the speech, it made that more difficult, and moved the negotiation in the USA/West's favor as they could now say "you know we can't do that, the whole world, knows that's BS".
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1. When I quoted the foreign aid number, I prefaced it with: "Israel over the years has been given over 120 Billion dollars in foreign aid from the United States". The over the years part makes its clear I am not talking about just 1 year.

2. The insult to our president was Bibi violating protocol.

3. Bibi was far from 100% correct considering he made statements that were not even supported by his own country's intelligence.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/...y-netanyahu-crying-wolf-iranian-nuclear-bomb/
 
Sherman123 said:
It would be a gigantic distraction. Easily a week or more of the media circus and would (justifiably) tar the Republican leadership as uninterested in actually governing. All so that at the end of the day 10,000,000 chain emails could reverberate around the country claiming the triumph of 'censuring' the President. Which is a fictitious punishment anyways.
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Not really.....as all the Repubs have to do, is govern. While the MS media will help BO with deepening his depression. Also he will know it goes with his record of failures.

Then final it out with an override on a couple of his vetos. Sending him back to the WH with his tail tucked firmly between his legs.

Then he will want to finish his time out quietly.....wherein none will mind when he slinks off into obscurity.
 
Fenton said:
Not really the point is it ?

This was a childish and pointless thing to do.

This is Obama....AGAIN...throwing a temper tantrum instead of acting like a adult and a Leader.

You people defend him but why is beyond me. Even if you agree with his Policies how can you defend this ?
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The answers are easy once you recall what Jonathan Gruber had to say.

These are the same people, remember, who felt the "War On Women" was the most important issue during the last election.
 
Blue_State said:
And now Saudi Arabia would like a nuke...I can only figure the entire region will want nukes by the end of the year. Absolute s*#t show.

Saudi ambassador won't rule out nuke development | Politics - WDSU Home

Saudi Ambassador: We May Want to Build Our Own Nukes

Saudis Could Be Shopping for Nukes in Pakistan - Breitbart

With everyone having nukes, I can't see us having troops there. That seems to be the deterrent to us invading your country.
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Mornin Blue State. :2wave: Yep and Jordan has now bought a reactor from the Russians. Plus the Russians will help the Egyptians restart their research reactor. They also stated they will have the same as Iran.

Oh, and the Sauds may want to build their own.....but in the meantime. They have their order in with the Pakistani. Who will paint it any color the Saud wants.
 
MMC said:
Mornin Blue State. :2wave: Yep and Jordan has now bought a reactor from the Russians. Plus the Russians will help the Egyptians restart their research reactor. They also stated they will have the same as Iran.

Oh, and the Sauds may want to build their own.....but in the meantime. They have their order in with the Pakistani. Who will paint it any color the Saud wants.
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I didn't know about the Russian's and the Egyptians, going to read up on that.

For an area so prone to war, that can't be good.
 
MMC said:
Mornin Blue State. :2wave: Yep and Jordan has now bought a reactor from the Russians. Plus the Russians will help the Egyptians restart their research reactor. They also stated they will have the same as Iran.

Oh, and the Sauds may want to build their own.....but in the meantime. They have their order in with the Pakistani. Who will paint it any color the Saud wants.
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there is only ONE solution to this current arms race: compel israel to relinquish its nuclear weapons arsenal

then no party in the region will have - or need - one to accomplish military parity
 
justabubba said:
there is only ONE solution to this current arms race: compel israel to relinquish its nuclear weapons arsenal

then no party in the region will have - or need - one to accomplish military parity
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How would that work again.....as then it would just be Israel without any means of protection. While Iran and the Saud who would continue on with the Sectarian Conflict. Which then leaves both Sunni and Shia still going for nukes.

You would like that huh.....everyone else in the ME to have Nukes and Chems and Israel to have nothing, Right? I mean just think once Israel is gone and out of the way.

Then you might actually have to blame those who were the root of most of the problems in that region.....huh?
 
washunut said:
Wonder if Russia will offer a reactor to Venezuela. That would be interesting. I guess Obama would be fine with that.
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Nah, Putin offered Nicaragua some Mig29's.....he knew that was enough to destabilize that region.
 
justabubba said:
there is only ONE solution to this current arms race: compel israel to relinquish its nuclear weapons arsenal

then no party in the region will have - or need - one to accomplish military parity
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Wouldn't it be easier to achieve your goals if you compelled them to give up their Iron Dome defense of the missiles Iran sends to Hamas and Hezballoh?
 
MMC said:
Nah, Putin offered Nicaragua some Mig29's.....he knew that was enough to destabilize that region.
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Well Obama does not care if their are nuclear bombs in Iran why would he care if they were in Latin America?
 
MMC said:
How would that work again.....as then it would just be Israel without any means of protection. While Iran and the Saud who would continue on with the Sectarian Conflict. Which then leaves both Sunni and Shia still going for nukes.

You would like that huh.....everyone else in the ME to have Nukes and Chems and Israel to have nothing, Right? I mean just think once Israel is gone and out of the way.

Then you might actually have to blame those who were the root of most of the problems in that region.....huh?
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your suggestion that israel would be without adequate protection is bogus
it has the most dynamic, effective defense system in the entire region
pretense that it is now not much stronger than its neighbors than it was at the time of its regional victories in '67 and '73 is laughable

nuclear weapons are offensive devices
not defensive ones
which is why the world that created a nation for the jewish people should now compel that nation to relinquish its nuclear arsenal
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
1. When I quoted the foreign aid number, I prefaced it with: "Israel over the years has been given over 120 Billion dollars in foreign aid from the United States". The over the years part makes its clear I am not talking about just 1 year.

2. The insult to our president was Bibi violating protocol.

3. Bibi was far from 100% correct considering he made statements that were not even supported by his own country's intelligence.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/...y-netanyahu-crying-wolf-iranian-nuclear-bomb/
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One, there was no "protocol" breached. More than a few world leaders have addressed joint sessions of congress without a **** fit on the part of the adolescent president. Netyanhu himself spoke once before with Obama in office and the community organizer whimpered not a peep of complaint. No one complained the previous time to that. Obama simply went child again.

Two whether he was accurate is not something Obama lemmings and Grubers should be raising...the president of the United States is on record as an habitual liar on several fronts from Obamacare, Keystone, Syria, Cuba, Canada, Libya and the entire middle east and likely still hasn't figured out his home state isn't in Asia.

Credibility is not your strong suit. John the liar from SNL has more credibility than the entire Obama administration and every Gruber that voted for this madman.

And I wouldn't be whining about insults with Obama around, we are after all debating Obama's having outed Israel's defenses and sent a two bit minion aide out to bash a respected world leader, that's insulting and chicken**** cowardice
 
justabubba said:
your suggestion that israel would be without adequate protection is bogus
it has the most dynamic, effective defense system in the entire region
pretense that it is now not much stronger than its neighbors than it was at the time of its regional victories in '67 and '73 is laughable

nuclear weapons are offensive devices
not defensive ones
which is why the world that created a nation for the jewish people should now compel that nation to relinquish its nuclear arsenal
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Do you ever post anything accurate?

Because of your community organizer Israel's defenses are weakened, the enemies to this state now know exactly where to attack to take out Israel's nukes.

Two nuclear weapons are NOT an offensive weapon and have never been used as such. They are a deterrent weapon as in 'if you don't surrender we will use it again" as in Japan..

and you may want to look up a thing called the "arms race"? It was all about mutual deterrent, as in what became known as mutually assured destruction.'


It is constructive to the debate if you research areas other than Hollywood movies.

And, don't be surprised if other countries start saying "**** off" when asked to play war....Obama has revealed state secrets of an ally. Whether you think they are still capable of defending themselves as well is irrelevant, you never fought in those wars and likely have never fought at all, but you are happy when your president draws an ally closer to war
 
justabubba said:
your suggestion that israel would be without adequate protection is bogus
it has the most dynamic, effective defense system in the entire region
pretense that it is now not much stronger than its neighbors than it was at the time of its regional victories in '67 and '73 is laughable

nuclear weapons are offensive devices
not defensive ones
which is why the world that created a nation for the jewish people should now compel that nation to relinquish its nuclear arsenal
Click to expand...



Your suggestion that the Sunnis and Shia Arabs wouldn't still go for nukes. Even if there was no Israel. Is not real and is an exercise in futility.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Do you ever post anything accurate?
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in your personal world of make-believe, would you even recognize it?

Because of your community organizer Israel's defenses are weakened, the enemies to this state now know exactly where to attack to take out Israel's nukes.
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you know so much about this, tell us the method and means that would be used to accomplish taking out israel's nuclear arsenal. but you must adequately respond with that information before your assertion could be taken seriously

Two nuclear weapons are NOT an offensive weapon and have never been used as such.
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we were defending the USA at nagasaki and hiroshima? thought you were a former reporter; should you not then be able to distinguish between fact and fiction? then start displaying that capacity

They are a deterrent weapon as in 'if you don't surrender we will use it again" as in Japan..
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notice, it did not work the first time; we had to drop a second one ... and NOT in self defense

and also notice that it is a weapon used by the offense. like having a handgun in a knife fight. there is no parity. and all nations need parity in order to defend themselves
israel's possession of a nuclear arsenal is what allows itself to bomb other sovereign nations - unprovoked and with impunity
the only way nuclear weapons can be thought of as defensive weapons is if the other side has one, too. then the belief in mutually assured destruction is what prevents those nuclear weapons holders to forgo any attempt to use their devices in an offensive manner

and you may want to look up a thing called the "arms race"? It was all about mutual deterrent, as in what became known as mutually assured destruction.'
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and if israel did not have its own nuclear arsenal, then iran would not need the capability to develop its own in response. which is the very reason i suggested the elimination of israel's nuclear arsenal would be THE solution to the current middle east arms race

It is constructive to the debate if you research areas other than Hollywood movies.
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share with us what movie research you are speaking about and how you came to know this. or is this just more posting out of one's ass ... not a favorable methodology for a self proclaimed journalist

And, don't be surprised if other countries start saying "**** off" when asked to play war....Obama has revealed state secrets of an ally.
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then having other countries agree not to participate in senseless war would be a good thing. only wish they would have had such good sense during dicknbush's watch

Whether you think they are still capable of defending themselves as well is irrelevant,
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IRRELEVANT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
that is THE essence of the issue. would israel still be able to defend itself once iran acquires a nuclear arsenal? absolutely. it has the most formidable conventional military in the middle east. by a long shot. there is NO question about its continuing self defense capacity. and beyond that, they have the umbrella of the USA ... excepting any self inflicted wounds, such as igniting a pointless war with iran. we should never defend stupid

you never fought in those wars and likely have never fought at all,
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for a supposed journalist, you certainly jump to a bunch of very wrong conclusions

... but you are happy when your president draws an ally closer to war
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any war fought by israel would be self inflicted
i get it
israel likes being able to bomb other nations without recourse
but that is not something it has a right to ... or should expect to have a right to
 
MMC said:
Your suggestion that the Sunnis and Shia Arabs wouldn't still go for nukes. Even if there was no Israel. Is not real and is an exercise in futility.
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i am asserting that the motivation for iran to seek nuclear weapons is to establish military parity with the foremost state bully in the region: israel
 
justabubba said:
i am asserting that the motivation for iran to seek nuclear weapons is to establish military parity with the foremost state bully in the region: israel
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Yeah, but Iran doesn't consider Israel as any real threat. According to Iran Israel is like a bug and will be crushed easily.

Which leaves Iran's real and most important enemy. The one they have been fighting for thousands of years. The Saud, that Lead all Sunni Arabs. Which both want total subjugation of the other.
 
MMC said:
Yeah, but Iran doesn't consider Israel as any real threat. According to Iran Israel is like a bug and will be crushed easily.

Which leaves Iran's real and most important enemy. The one they have been fighting for thousands of years. The Saud, that Lead all Sunni Arabs. Which both want total subjugation of the other.
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you are speaking about the iranian nation that israel has repeatedly threatened to bomb and go to war against
were i citizen of iran, i would expect my government to protect me from a nuclear israel by developing a nuclear iran
 
justabubba said:
you are speaking about the iranian nation that israel has repeatedly threatened to bomb and go to war against
were i citizen of iran, i would expect my government to protect me from a nuclear israel by developing a nuclear iran
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Yeah, Israel said that, after Iran said that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth. Any could see why someone would say something like Israel said after some Iranian Arab Leader decided to utter forth some noise.
 
justabubba said:
you are speaking about the iranian nation that israel has repeatedly threatened to bomb and go to war against were i citizen of iran, i would expect my government to protect me from a nuclear israel by developing a nuclear iran
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Israel has only threatened Iran if they go nuclear. Otherwise, what else have you got?
 
MMC said:
Yeah, Israel said that, after Iran said that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth. Any could see why someone would say something like Israel said after some Iranian Arab Leader decided to utter forth some noise.
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Muslims have been after Jews for centuries and, apart from Leftists, no one is more anti Israel than the Iranians. Recall they bombed Saddam's nuclear facility in the 80's? That will likely happen again.
 
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