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US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

It is nice to be the biggest kid on the block. Should we make ourselves smaller simply to be fair? Or should we not stand up for our own interests?

How about making thoughtful Foreign Policy decisions and putting aside petty disagreements ?

How about not showing the World that their secrets are safe as long as you dont insult our President ?

How about dialogue instead of threarthreatening the Secutity of all ISRAELIS because you didn't get your way ?
 
I think the actual message it sends is that if you want to **** with us, well, we can **** with you right back. I also think that is a message that should be sent. If foreign powers want to mess with partisan politics in the US, they can expect to get burned. Don't want to get burned, don't get involved in partisan US politics.

WTF? It was our guys messing with their politics. Netanyahu didn't send political operatives and money to try to put Romney in power in 2012, but we sure sent people and money to try to kick Netanyahu out of power in 2015.


....And YOU DONT PUT EVERY OTHER INFORMATION SHARING AGREEMENT YOU HAVE AT RISK BECAUSE YOU ARE UPSET THAT YOU FAILED TO TO TOPPLE THE LEADERSHIP OF AN ALLY.
 
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It is nice to be the biggest kid on the block. Should we make ourselves smaller simply to be fair? Or should we not stand up for our own interests?

How is demonstrating that we are an untrustworthy partner in our national interests?
 
Preeeetty much. Our credibility as a partner nation has taken quite a beating lately :-(

It just got worse.



NBC’s Engel: US allies fear Obama admin leaking information to Iran.....

Just how badly has Barack Obama and his administration damaged relations with our allies in the Middle East? NBC’s Richard Engel reports that the Sunni nations in the region have begun to fear that the Obama administration leaks intel to Iran as part of its efforts at rapprochement with the mullahs, which is why the US got blindsided by the Saudi-led coalition’s operations in Yemen. The White House’s “incoherence” in policy, Engel reports, has most of them losing confidence in American leadership, according to Engel’s contacts (via Free Beacon):

ENGEL (1:58): I know several people in the US military who were taken by surprise by this [action in Yemen]. Senior officials who would have been expected to know that there was going to be an operation in Yemen, they didn’t. They were finding out about it almost in real time.

And they believe, and some US members of Congress believe, that the reason Saudi Arabia and other states didn’t tell the US that it was going to launch this war against Shi’ite backed, or Iranian-backed rebels in Yemen, is because Saudi Arabia and other countries simply don’t trust the United States anymore, don’t trust this administration — think the administration is working to befriend Iran to try and make a deal in Switzerland, and therefore didn’t think that the intelligence frankly would be secure. I think that is a situation that is quite troubling for US foreign policy, where traditional allies — like Saudi Arabia, like Egypt, like the United Arab Emirates — don’t know if the US is reliable at this stage to hold onto this information when it comes to Iran.....snip~

NBC’s Engel: US allies fear Obama admin leaking information to Iran « Hot Air
 
How did Israel " ****" with us exactly ?

By carrying out Democratic elections ?

They didn't vote the way we wanted. Democracy only counts if you elect people Barack Obama approves of.
 
Everyone knew that a shia majority country would vote for a shia government that would be a puppet of Iran, a shia country.

That's an interesting claim. Do you think that every sunni country who elects sunni leadership is a puppet of Saudi Arabia? If an area is heavily jewish here in the united states, and they elect jewish leadership, does that make them a puppet of Israel?

Maliki had an alliance between moderate Shia, moderate Sunni, and the Kurds, but it required us to undergird. Then we said "nope, you're on your own", and so he abandoned that alliance to side with the Sadrists (who could sustain him absent our presence), arrested his Sunni Vice President literally as the last US soldier pulled out, and, well, that's that.

Iraqi nationalism was a real thing. Iraqi Shia fought proudly and well against Iran in the Iraq-Iran war. I never saw them happier than when the Iraqi soccer team beat the Saudis. Flags everywhere. It didn't have to end up like this :shrug: :(
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
... Israel over the years has been given over 120 Billion dollars in foreign aid from the United States. That is over $15,000 for every individual in the country paid for by U.S. taxpayers and in return their government insults our president, undermines negotiations and spies on us. Moreover, we hardly get anything for it....
$120 Billion is over a period of 67 YEARS...
it's about what we have spent in Iraq/Afghanistan EACH and EVERY YEAR for more than a Decade.

Not too bad for what he Have gotten/Forgotten.
You Spin the numbers quite Disingenuously and call Israel ungrateful and Insulting- but even then, it's to ONE President only.
In that speech, Netanyahu was NOT insulting, he was complimentary, just making the speech Desperately necessary to his country's best interest. Read the Transcript.
Further:

Hiding Israel's Contribution to the US Military - Op-Eds - Arutz Sheva

For years, Israel has been America's secret weapon in defending the interests and lives of the people of the United States.

While the US wants and needs Israel's assistance in securing "human intelligence" (humint) - on-ground intelligence - about what Arab terrorists and Arab rogue nations are planning against America, it does not want to admit that Israel is its irreplaceable source for such deep intel. Israel reluctantly accepts this policy, because America is Israel's ally and friend, but the Jewish state resents this effort to appease Arab nations.

General George Keegan (now deceased), former head of America's Air Force Intelligence, unabashedly and repeatedly stated publically during his life that, "Israel is worth five CIAs" with respect to the intelligence passed to their American counterparts....

Some may recall the extraordinary assistance Israel rendered to America's military as they were mobilizing their forces to invade Saddam Hussein's Iraq in 1990. Israel briefed America's Military Intelligence on what they had learned through Israeli agents planted deep in Iraq's regime. Additionally, Israel provided an air umbrella of their aircraft
[.....]
Bush, Baker and Colin Powell had formed a fake coalition of Arab nations who did virtually nothing to assist the American and British forces. All they did was to loan their names...
[.....]
As 39 SCUDs hit Israel, she, for her very real contribution, got a Phoney promise that the US Administration would task their pilots to hit the SCUD missile launchers....
The Chief of Israel's Air Force said over and over that there were No American sorties against the SCUD launchers, but no one believed him. Had the Israelis been allowed to send their own pilots against the launchers, perhaps the SCUD missile wouldn't have hit the American barracks in Saudi Arabia, killing 28 Marines.

One could go back further in Israel's assistance to her ally, America, when she captured Soviet missile systems, radar systems and planes - all of which were sent back to America for inspection. Billions of dollars would have been spent on reverse engineering to learn how to defend against them had US industry not had the captured Soviet equipment and experience that Israel sent to America. Israel's assistance shortened the number of man-hours and money to develop counter-measures against Soviet technology, missiles, radar frequencies and more. Israel, despite her minuscule size, gave back to her ally, America, more than any other nation...

Israel developed disposable aircraft fuel containers, allowing fighter aircraft to extend their flying and fighting range.
As I recall, the 'thank you' they received from then-Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger was the transfer of this technology to Saudi Arabia and Egypt...
[.....]
I recall when the American M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank, then in first production, using a turbine engine, was failing in every phase of its construction. It sucked up sand, its suspension could not take the punishment, its bearings ate sand, its firing systems on the run were inadequate, etc. Then they called upon Israel's General Israel Tal, who had fathered the Merkava, to assist in de-bugging the M1A1..
[.....]
Israel has been the first and most competent developer of UAVs now used by America's Navy, Army, Marines and Air Force in battle....

Presently, American troops are being trained by Israelis on fighting techniques in urban combat
, saving American lives. The Israelis learned the hard way how to fight terrorists for over 50 years - in Gaza, Jenin, Hebron...
...
 
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WTF? It was our guys messing with their politics. And YOU DONT PUT EVERY OTHER INFORMATION SHARING AGREEMENT YOU HAVE AT RISK BECAUSE YOU ARE UPSET THAT YOU FAILED TO TO TOPPLE THE LEADERSHIP OF AN ALLY.

After the Midterms Obama told Hillary that she would get no support from him because he was convinced that she was the reason Americans overwhelmingly voted against Obama's policies.

Instead of realizing that HE and his Policies were to blame he created this narrative that absolved his administration from the huge losses sustained in the Midterms.

Obama thought he could influence the Israeli election ( to be fair his meddling probably helped BiBi win ) and when that backfired he threw the equivalent of a Temper tantrum.

I remember when Conservatives use to get criticized for calling him a Narcissist.

Well, thanks for the vindication Obama.
 
They didn't vote the way we wanted. Democracy only counts if you elect people Barack Obama approves of.

Yep.

These perennial losses Obama's having to endure SHOULD humble him and maybe even provoke some introspection.

Maybe he's just a little slow.
 
Yep.

These perennial losses Obama's having to endure SHOULD humble him and maybe even provoke some introspection.

Maybe he's just a little slow.

Everyone around him who would have encouraged introspection or wisdom has been pushed out.
 
Everyone around him who would have encouraged introspection or wisdom has been pushed out.

Including many military top brass, who know what they are talking about. Is there no legal way to stop him from doing what he wants to do in any and all situations...which the Supreme Court has ruled is overreach of his authority?
 
Everyone around him who would have encouraged introspection or wisdom has been pushed out.

It would seem he may have a personality disorder thats never been addressed.

The product of decades of coddling and access to top Liberal Arts Universities without the advantage of the challenges that would have led to a appreciation of humility has produced a President who cannot put his personal issues aside even when it comes to addressing serious Foreign Policy issues.

My literal genius of a half sister had to settle for Rice University because Occidental was too difficult to get into.

I guarantee he has never had to compromise on anything substantial and it shows. Democrats try to blame the GOP for his refusal to lead but the fact is all Presidents had to deal with oppositional Congresses.

Clinton had to deal with Newt Gingrich of all people but he did, and together they accomplished some positive things.

Obama's a idelogue, not a leader. His world view takes precedent and all those that oppose that ideology are cut and dry " enemies " that have to be punished.
 
It is nice to be the biggest kid on the block. Should we make ourselves smaller simply to be fair? Or should we not stand up for our own interests?

How about making thoughtful Foreign Policy decisions and putting aside petty disagreements ?

How about not showing the World that their secrets are safe as long as you dont insult our President ?

How about dialogue instead of threarthreatening the Secutity of all ISRAELIS because you didn't get your way ?

I think Fenton here summed it up pretty good.
 
$120 Billion is over a period of 67 YEARS...
it's about what we have spent in Iraq/Afghanistan EACH and EVERY YEAR for more than a Decade.

Not too bad for what he Have gotten/Forgotten.
You Spin the numbers quite Disingenuously and call Israel ungrateful and Insulting- but even then, it's to ONE President only.
In that speech, Netanyahu was NOT insulting, he was complimentary, just making the speech Desperately necessary to his country's best interest. Read the Transcript.
Further:

Hiding Israel's Contribution to the US Military - Op-Eds - Arutz Sheva

Many in his own country were against him coming here so close to the election and addressing congress without being invited by the President. Moreover, you are making an absurd comparison in comparing foreign aid to the costs of war and occupation. Mind you, the war in Iraq was heavily lobbied for by the Israeli lobby here in the United States.

As I said earlier, I don't take handouts from anyone, friends, family, anyone, because I don't want anyone owning me. If Bibi wants to insult the president, undermine our foreign policy and negotiations, and spy on us, then fine, just don't ask for our money.

This is what kills me. The right wingers on here venerate and quote the Founding Fathers as though they were gods. Does anyone think that George Washington or any of our early leaders or founders would be cool with a foreign government having a powerful and well funded lobby in the United States that did nothing but try to influence our policy and get money out of us, and for that same government then to insult our president and undermine our foreign policy and negotiations with other countries? I would put a paycheck on them not being too cool with that one, but that is exactly the kind of crap the right wingers are on here vehemently defending.
 
It is nice to be the biggest kid on the block. Should we make ourselves smaller simply to be fair? Or should we not stand up for our own interests?

That is what some of these guys on here don't seem to get. We basically have one real interest in the Middle East, to make sure its stable enough that the oil there keeps flowing. That is all. Fighting wars for Israel is not usually in our interest. Deposing contained dictators and spending trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives trying to democratize the place only for them to elect puppets of Iran for a government is not in our interest. Blindly backing everything the government of Israel does no matter what simply because a bunch of fundies over here think that is God's will, is not always in our interest.
 
Including many military top brass, who know what they are talking about. Is there no legal way to stop him from doing what he wants to do in any and all situations...which the Supreme Court has ruled is overreach of his authority?

You would need to have the Supremes rule that way EVERY time he overreaches. Obama doesn't care if they rule against him in any specific instance...he'll just do it again with another issue. The only way to stop him from doing this stuff is to get him out of Office and that will never happen.

It sucks, but we are stuck with him till the end of 2016.
 
So do you really think Israel would or should let a muslim appeasing weasel like Obama negotiate the future of Israel without demanding to know the terms of the negotiation? Is that the rational thought-process of the standard liberal??
 
You either didn't read what I wrote or you ignored it. Lets try rephrasing.

Do you think that it is possible for the parties in a treaty that are allowed to make changes, even temp changes, to vote to suspend parts or even all of a treaty?

When you find that the US, Britain and France voted to suspect any part of the NPT, you'll have a point.
 
You would need to have the Supremes rule that way EVERY time he overreaches. Obama doesn't care if they rule against him in any specific instance...he'll just do it again with another issue. The only way to stop him from doing this stuff is to get him out of Office and that will never happen.

It sucks, but we are stuck with him till the end of 2016.



Well MC. :2wave: We could first grab him up by back of his shirt collar drag his ass in front of Congress.....remember now he can't stand physical violence. So this will cause him to tremble visibly with the shakes.

Then we deposit him on the Center of the House Floor.....on his knees. Then Censure and humiliate his ass publicly.

Now we could do that and there is nothing he could do about it.....but you know it wont happen. Since the Repubs have no spine. Plus those Sell-out New democrats that Put BO before Party, People, and this Country will do all to prevent their man from getting whats coming to him.

We should at least try.....this way we can manipulate those of the left that ate some Wheaties to come out from hiding. Just sayin!
 
Many in his own country were against him coming here so close to the election and addressing congress without being invited by the President. Moreover, you are making an absurd comparison in comparing foreign aid to the costs of war and occupation.
IOW, he still did Not "insult" the President. His first few statements were all in Praise/thx of Obama.
"Moreover" and again, I put the numbers in perspective, you Disingenuously totaled 67 Years (without saying it was) to the make it look bigger. (Along with per-Israeli-citizen)

SouthernDemocrat said:
Mind you, the war in Iraq was heavily lobbied for by the Israeli lobby here in the United States.
Ahh a New gratuitous charge.
And Not really.
The Neocons, who supported the War in the name of spreading democracy, also support Israel.
see:
Don't Blame the Iraq Debacle on the Israel Lobby - FPIF
and
Wiki:
"Whether AIPAC lobbied for the war in Iraq is Disputed. Congressman Jim Moran has stated that AIPAC had been "pushing the [Iraq War] from the beginning".[31] However, according to the Jewish News, AIPAC never supported or lobbied for the war in Iraq.[32] According to a columnist in the Washington Post, "Once it was clear that the Bush administration was determined to go to war [in Iraq], AIPAC cheered from the SIDELINES" [21]
and:
Sharon and others had Correctly/Consistently said at the time, even THEN, Iran was a bigger threat.
Iraq war | Martin Kramer on the Middle East
"....In doing so, they [Mearsheiemr/Walt] miss (or conceal) the Real story.
Israel did worry in the lead-up to the war—not about “cold feet,” but about the “long pause.” A year before the Iraq war, Natan Sharansky, then an Israeli cabinet minister, went on the record with this quote (missed by Mearsheimer and Walt):
“We and the Americans have different priorities. For us, Iran comes first and then Iraq. The Americans see Iraq, then a long pause, and only then Iran.” It never occurred to Israelis that Bush would get “cold feet” on Iraq, but they fretted endlessly over just how long the “long pause” would last, and they had good reason...


SouthernDemocrat said:
As I said earlier, I don't take handouts from anyone, friends, family, anyone, because I don't want anyone owning me. If Bibi wants to insult the president, undermine our foreign policy and negotiations, and spy on us, then fine, just don't ask for our money.
As I said, he was grateful in his speech, but this issue - Iran Nukes - is Life and death to Israel.


SouthernDemocrat said:
This is what kills me. The right wingers on here venerate and quote the Founding Fathers as though they were gods. Does anyone think that George Washington or any of our early leaders or founders would be cool with a foreign government having a powerful and well funded lobby in the United States that did nothing but try to influence our policy and get money out of us, and for that same government then to insult our president and undermine our foreign policy and negotiations with other countries? I would put a paycheck on them not being too cool with that one, but that is exactly the kind of crap the right wingers are on here vehemently defending.
As I've said previously, I was against Netanyahu coming and speaking. It was a violation of protocol/s in my book.
But he gave an excellent and well-reasoned speech that, also again, was a once in a generation life-and-death issue for his country.

I might add, he was also 100% correct. Obama was clearly going to fold, make a toothless agreement-for-agreements sake.
If anything came of the speech, it made that more difficult, and moved the negotiation in the USA/West's favor as they could now say "you know we can't do that, the whole world, knows that's BS".
 
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Well MC. :2wave: We could first grab him up by back of his shirt collar drag his ass in front of Congress.....remember now he can't stand physical violence. So this will cause him to tremble visibly with the shakes.

Then we deposit him on the Center of the House Floor.....on his knees. Then Censure and humiliate his ass publicly.

Now we could do that and there is nothing he could do about it.....but you know it wont happen. Since the Repubs have no spine. Plus those Sell-out New democrats that Put BO before Party, People, and this Country will do all to prevent their man from getting whats coming to him.

We should at least try.....this way we can manipulate those of the left that ate some Wheaties to come out from hiding. Just sayin!

What kind of fever dream is this? Seriously?
 
What kind of fever dream is this? Seriously?

Yeah it would be nice for him to experience first hand.....and that is seriously speaking. Still even now.....the Repubs wont even make a call for censure. They have no spine.
 
Yeah it would be nice for him to experience first hand.....and that is seriously speaking. Still even now.....the Repubs wont even make a call for censure. They have no spine.

Why would they waste the countries time with a censure motion for the President?
 
Why would they waste the countries time with a censure motion for the President?

Well, when one is projecting a policy of incoherency and when one has increased the risk of harm to our people, our interests, and our National Security.

Then it is not a waste of time noting it.....for the record. While allowing BO to absorb that impact.
 
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