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US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

Fenton said:
You have NO idea whether or not it CAN BE DONE.

Like I said, it was scuttled by by the current Presidents STOOPID Foreign Policy decision to pull out ALL American Military assets.

I can base my opinion on the verifiable fact that Iraqi's went from a brutal dictator to being allowed to participate in their own elections

What do you base your opinion on ?

Oh I know, its based on a irrational obsession with the manufactured evils of America and the last President.

Your opinion isn't worth the bandwidth you just wasted posting it.
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Everybody has an opinion. As well as other things. Democracies can't be forced. Anyway, SA isn't far from Iraq. Would you support regime change and forcing your democracy down their throats too?
 
So now Israel's enemies have ironclad confirmation that Israel has nukes, and not just suspicion that they do. How is that a good thing again? The next President will sure have some **** to clean up.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Yes, electing a Shia Iranian Puppet government.

And their citizens chose to elect a corrupt and ineffectual Shia government that is a puppet of Iran.
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So your problem is that they voted wrong.....

Had we never gone into Iraq, there would be no ISIS today.
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Oh yes, naturally. Because when I look at the other Baathist regime in the area (Syria), gosh, I see just a bastion of peace and stability and no extremists at all....

Moreover, the Iraqi government and the Iraqi people did not want us there any longer and had we stayed they made it a condition that our troops there be subject to their courts
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:shrug: They wanted the same thing from Bush. I guess The Smartest President Ever just wasn't as good a negotiator as his predecessor?


Maliki was willing to go to bat to get that requirement waived if we were willing to leave enough troops to make it worth his while by supporting the coalition that al-Maliki was building between moderate Shia, moderate Sunni, and the Kurds. Then the White House torpedoed the talks by inserting a ceiling of 5,000 troops at the last minute, and the coalition fell apart (the administration also apparently tasked Joe Biden with the role of keeping it together, whether that was deliberate sabotage or not is anyone's guess). Maliki had no choice but to join with the Sadrists if he wanted to retain his position, which meant he could no longer get the requirement waved.

The President wanted us out by the 2012 election, and he made sure we got out. :shrug:
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
We work closely and are ailed closely with all sorts of developed nations that we don't give a cent of foreign aid to. I don't recall Canada, the UK, France, Germany or countless other nations that we have a close relationship with and get a lot more out of economically than we do Israel, having a huge lobby in the United States trying to get foreign aid out of us.

I don't have anything against Israel, I wish the country all the best, but if you are going to be the world's largest recipient of foreign aid, then don't insult our president and don't undermine negotiations we have with other countries.

Finally, if we go to war with Iran it most certainly will primarily be for the benefit of Israel. Iran poses no substantial threat to the United States nuclear or not. It is a country whose military budget is a tiny, tiny fraction of ours, whose per-capita GDP is a tiny, tiny fraction of ours, and who has neither the navy nor any real means of ever striking the United States. Israel is an ally of the United States and the United States will defend the country if necessary, but don't pretend its primarily for our benefit, it would be to help Israel.
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Israel is the top recipient of US foreign aid but there are plenty of nations that receive billions of US dollars in US aid, such as Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Jordan, Ethiopia, Kenya, etc.
Clearly if you oppose the foreign aid policy you should oppose it to all of these states and not merely to Israel which unlike the rest of the nations on the list is a democracy that shares its values and interests with the United States.
The American aid to Israel also comes with many obligations, including one that forces Israel to buy its armaments only from American companies and thus reinvest the money that was given to Israel by the American administration into the American military industry.

Regarding the PM of Israel "insulting" Obama by accepting the invitation to speak in front of the Congress; the Iranian issue is clearly an existential issue for Israel, and since Netanyahu believes Obama is heading for a bad deal, just like Suadi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan believe and the UK and France imply by the way, he was trying to convince the Congress to use its own powers to tackle down such deal. It's also noteworthy that while Netanyahu has his share in the conflict between the two Obama is the one who actually went out of his way and is still going out of his way to insult and attack the PM of Israel and the state of Israel, to the level of getting himself involved in the Israeli elections trying to undermine the democratic process and avoid having Netanyahu reelected.

As to your final passage, I didn't say Israel isn't the one that is most concerned with the Iranian issue, of all nations in the world. I even stated that it has the most to lose. Iran may not be such an existential threat to the United States, but clearly this does not somehow mean or imply that Iran is not a threat to the US at all. Iran is the world's number one sponsor of terrorism, a great part of it being anti-American terrorism carried through its proxies, mainly Hezbollah and various Iraqi militias and insurgents. It had caused a lot of American deaths and injuries in Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan and elsewhere, and is looking to expand its control over the Mideast and greatly expand the wideness of its Shiite terror net. So it isn't completely justified to label an hypothetical military attack by the United States on the Iranian regime as "going to war for Israel". Regardless as things appear no one is heading for war with Iran at the moment. Things could change instantly in the future, but neither Israel nor the United States appear willing to engage Iran militarily at present, and both are promoting diplomatic methods as the supported approach.
 
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Lol. Not that they voted "wrong" but that they voted to oppress one sect. That they aren't interested in democracy, representation for everyone, shared power or anything else that the West may think that they should force. But neocon supporters of the very failed Bush doctrine have tied themselves like pretzels to frame Iraq as some sort of success. Not only is that opposite the truth, for all the US interference and military adventurism in the Middle East, it's in ****ing ruins. And what do people want, more US interference.
 
Hatuey said:
He's going to ignore this. It doesn't fit his bull**** Poor-Little-Israel narrative.
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what about poor widdle Egypt that Obama lit on fire for his MB "buddies"
 
Fenton said:
Obamas treatment of one of our closest allies in one of the most unstable regions on the Planet has been unprecedented.

Say what you want about the value of the information disclosed, the point is Obama's decision was motivated by spite.

Not strategy, not a smart thoughtful decision based on Foreign Policy but pure spite and hatred.

Its beneath the office he swore an oath to and it tells our allies that their State secrets can and will be disclosed if they anger Obama.

This is indefensible. This was a childish and petty act and its embarrassing.
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Say what you want about Israel playing the US for a ****ing fool while calling itself our ally? I bet you're the type of guy who would find out that his best friend is ****ing his wife and takes it out on the woman. That's exactly what is happening here. You're ignoring the fact that Obama has been in the picture for 6 years, while Israel has been pretending to be our ally for 28. While Obama doesn't get off lightly because he's agreed to keep this quiet for 7 years which is far too long for my like. Not once in 28 years did Israel even consider the possibility of what would happen if it encouraged us to deny others nuclear weapons, while the US turned a blind eye to Israel's own actions.
 
Montecresto said:
Try being honest for one time. I've been highly critical of Obama policies in the region, how many times have I pointed out the mistakes of removing Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad?
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So what?

On the issue of Iran, and their nuclear program in particular, I support what he's doing, obviously so long as it works. And at this point neither he or the rest of us know if it will. But diplomacy is preferred to the McCain/Netanyahu position.
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This is a dangerous and clearly wrong move by Obama. Now Saudi Arabia is intervening, against Iran, in Yemen. You know, our new buddies who are fighting against us in Yemen. The Saudi's have no faith in Obama, so they are a step away from a direct conflict with Iran. Great job, Barry.

But they are going to stop their decades long policy of killing Americans, they are going to stop deceiving us and lying about their nuclear program, and they sure are not going to build any nukes. Because Obama, that's all. It's all him.

I wonder why they are developing ICBMs? What do you think? Maybe some new package delivery service? They will have the ability, in the not to distant future, to hit us and Israel with nukes. So, we could wake up one day with several cities wiped off the map.
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SouthernDemocrat said:
How is it going to have massive global reverberations? Everyone on earth already knew that Israel had nuclear weapons. This was declassified before the Israeli election. Moreover what is Israel doing for us other than taking our money as historically the world's largest recipient of US foreign aid?

I don't know whose side the right wingers on here are on. Maybe if they stopped blowing Bibi for a minute they could tell us, but I am on team USA. So when a country spies on us, has a huge lobby that does nothing but try to get more of our taxpayer money out of us, and then has the nerve to give a big F*** You to our president (regardless of who the president is) despite the fact that he comes here cup in hand wanting our money every chance they get, then I really don't care if they get their feelings hurt when we tell the world what everyone in the world already knew.
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Very well put, imo.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Yes, electing a Shia Iranian Puppet government.



And their citizens chose to elect a corrupt and ineffectual Shia government that is a puppet of Iran.



Had we never gone into Iraq, there would be no ISIS today. Moreover, the Iraqi government and the Iraqi people did not want us there any longer and had we stayed they made it a condition that our troops there be subject to their courts. Thus had we continued to stay it would have been an occupation, not at their invitation. This was all heavily reported on a the time despite the right wing mythology circulating today.

Iraq’s Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence | TIME.com
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If we stayed in iraq there would be no Isis today..

we had alreasyd won the war.. Obama made sure we lost it and thousands got killed ...

but who cares... its all about Obama.. people getting killed is nothing..long as Obama is doing ok in his basketball picks
 
Travis007 said:
The older I get the more I see that "since Barack Hussein Soetero Obama the USA is NOT TRUSTWORTHY"

we have lost the trust off ALL our traditional Allies..

oh the irony
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This isn't about the jihad Travis. Your weak understanding of global politics isn't required.
 
Hatuey said:
Say what you want about Israel playing the US for a ****ing fool while calling itself our ally? I bet you're the type of guy who would find out that his best friend is ****ing his wife and takes it out on the woman. That's exactly what is happening here. You're ignoring the fact that Obama has been in the picture for 6 years, while Israel has been pretending to be our ally for 28. While Obama doesn't get off lightly because he's agreed to keep this quiet for 7 years which is far too long for my like. Not once in 28 years did Israel even consider the possibility of what would happen if it encouraged us to deny others nuclear weapons, while the US turned a blind eye to Israel's own actions.
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Your posts are nonsense and for consumption by mindless children.. gee.. Im shocked
 
Hatuey said:
This isn't about the jihad Travis. Your weak understanding of global politics isn't required.
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nice try..

again your posts reflect the understanding a 3rd grader ...

Moral clarity is not your strength.. but its not Obamas either.. so Im again not shocked
 
Travis007 said:
nice try..

again your posts reflect the understanding a 3rd grader ...

Moral clarity is not your strength.. but its not Obamas either.. so Im again not shocked
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Moral clarity? Are you living in a soap opera? There is no morality in global politics, Travis. Israel hid it's nuclear weapons from the world while demanding that the US play world police and tell everyone else what to do when it comes to having nuclear power. There's nothing moral about that.
 
Montecresto said:
Everybody has an opinion. As well as other things. Democracies can't be forced. Anyway, SA isn't far from Iraq. Would you support regime change and forcing your democracy down their throats too?
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For a guy who post so much in Foreign Policy discusssions you sure do have a backwards understanding of how things work.

Democracies arent " forced " but they sure can be torn asunder by irresponsible and purely political foreign policy decisions.

That much is evident as ISIS tears accross that Country murdering innocent Iraqi's and Kurds and Coptic Christians.

The facts are there were elections in Iraq and even Iraqi Women were allowed to vote.

Now the entire region is destabilized and its directly related to Obama's decision to remove all remnants of American militarily assets.

Your assertion that Democracy can't be " forced " is a twisted analysis of what actually happened in Iraq an is based on twisted comprehension of freedom and liberty.

No one " forces " Democracy. ( unless you mandate voting....) Democracy survives on its own when people are given the freedom to select their representives without the threat of retribution.

Dictatorships are FORCED, Tyrants and Kings force their minions into subjugation under the threat of persecution.

Right now freedom is being challenged by a group of extreme Islamo-fascist and it not the fault of " Democracy " nor is it the fault of the policies that sougt to Liberate a Nation of people who lived under a barbaric Tyrant for decades.
 
Travis007 said:
LOL@theObamasheepmovement
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Obama sheep movement? Lol. You're looking silly. I've already made it clear how stupid Obama was for even keeping this "secret" while demanding other countries abide by clearly subjective limits on nuclear power.
 
Hatuey said:
This isn't about the jihad Travis. Your weak understanding of global politics isn't required.
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Mexico and Cuba want to go nuclear since the USA has the bomb..

I think thats fair.. why should we have it and they dont...( sarcasm)s


your weak understanding of these subject is noted and the consequences of these choices is not something that fits your Obama pom pom narrative

Your posts are garbage
 
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Hatuey said:
Obama sheep movement? Lol. You're looking silly. I've already made it clear how stupid Obama was for even keeping this "secret" while demanding other countries abide by clearly subjective limits on nuclear power.
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and you post again reflect your lack of understranding of these adult subjects and the consequences of Obamas ignorance

Obama "sold out an ally" in an obscene dangerous way Ive not seen in decades
 
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Anthony60 said:
So what?


This is a dangerous and clearly wrong move by Obama. Now Saudi Arabia is intervening, against Iran, in Yemen. You know, our new buddies who are fighting against us in Yemen. The Saudi's have no faith in Obama, so they are a step away from a direct conflict with Iran. Great job, Barry.

But they are going to stop their decades long policy of killing Americans, they are going to stop deceiving us and lying about their nuclear program, and they sure are not going to build any nukes. Because Obama, that's all. It's all him.

I wonder why they are developing ICBMs? What do you think? Maybe some new package delivery service? They will have the ability, in the not to distant future, to hit us and Israel with nukes. So, we could wake up one day with several cities wiped off the map.
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What do you mean, "so what" it's proof I'm not a partisan supporter of Obama. I don't like the drone program he's been using in Yemen either. In fact the drone program denies people due process and it has been argued by IL scholars as well as IL lawyers, as well as the UN that it's a violation of IL, as well as the Geneva Con. And yes, what both Bush and Obama have done/is doing in the Middle East has increased global terrorism, and made America less safe. And that is according to our own NIE. Why did the US develop ICBMS, to protect ourselves from our enemies, right Antonio, or was/is it for offensive purposes, hmm? Yep, more fear mongering. "Do we have to wait for the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud over a US city"????????
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Fenton said:
For a guy who post so much in Foreign Policy discusssions you sure do have a backwards understanding of how things work.

Democracies arent " forced " but they sure can be torn asunder by irresponsible and purely political foreign policy decisions.

That much is evident as ISIS tears accross that Country murdering innocent Iraqi's and Kurds and Coptic Christians.

The facts are there were elections in Iraq and even Iraqi Women were allowed to vote.

Now the entire region is destabilized and its directly related to Obama's decision to remove all remnants of American militarily assets.

Your assertion that Democracy can't be " forced " is a twisted analysis of what actually happened in Iraq an is based on twisted comprehension of freedom and liberty.

No one " forces " Democracy. ( unless you mandate voting....) Democracy survives on its own when people are given the freedom to select their representives without the threat of retribution.

Dictatorships are FORCED, Tyrants and Kings force their minions into subjugation under the threat of persecution.

Right now freedom is being challenged by a group of extreme Islamo-fascist and it not the fault of " Democracy " nor is it the fault of the policies that sougt to Liberate a Nation of people who lived under a barbaric Tyrant for decades.
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Great post.. thank you
 
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