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US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

Montecresto said:
Yes, they've voted. You think that's the extent of democracy. By that logic, you believe that Crimea is a thriving democracy.
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Youre unnatural and possibly unhealthy obsession with our last President doesn't negate the fact that Iraq citizens, even Women were allowed to vote for the first time in their lives.

Now, Iraq is a absolute mess as a evil murderous hoard tears into and over takes towns once liberated by American forces.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
So when a country spies on us, has a huge lobby that does nothing but try to get more of our taxpayer money out of us, and then has the nerve to give a big F*** You to our president (regardless of who the president is) despite the fact that he comes here cup in hand wanting our money every chance they get, then I really don't care if they get their feelings hurt when we tell the world what everyone in the world already knew.
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Do you have a clue how the U.S. even knew the Israelis were spying on the Iran talks ???

Feelings hurt ??? Are you serious ??

Do you feel the same way about the U.S. secrets disclosed by Wikileaks and Snowden ?? Was Obama's "feelings hurt" when he declared that Snowden would be arrested for revealing U.S. secrets ??
 
Fenton said:
Obamas treatment of one of our closest allies in one of the most unstable regions on the Planet has been unprecedented.

Say what you want about the value of the information disclosed, the point is Obama's decision was motivated by spite.

Not strategy, not a smart thoughtful decision based on Foreign Policy but pure spite and hatred.

Its beneath the office he swore an oath to and it tells our allies that their State secrets can and will be disclosed if they anger Obama.

This is indefensible. This was a childish and petty act and its embarrassing.
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You don't know Obama's motivations. You presume to know.

If I was Iran, I'd make formally announcing this information part of the negotiations. It helps to rationalize why Iran wants nukes that their main strategic opponent in the region already has them. It acknowledges our role in assisting them to acquire them. It's an open secret.

It's a minor concession, and an easy one to grant.
 
Montecresto said:
...start thinking about America, and American interests. Stop compromising our security and reputation. If you're an American, if you're concerned with your fellows, then quit... on your president, stop practicing treason against your own president and be a patriot, an American, support America...??
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I cut out all the emotional, baseless stuff, since it is useless. As well as the personal attack (see below).
Well, I had to leave some in there, otherwise there is nothing to respond to. So, let's take this apart now...

Okay so, out of the blue, you claim I'm not thinking about American interests. Which is funny, because Israel is our ally, Iran is our enemy, and you want Israel to be left on it's own, no protection from us, their ally, and you want Iran to be allowed to go ahead with their nuclear program. Pretty bizarre!

Oh, I am supporting America, Obama is not.

Next, even more outrageous, it is somehow treason to question the actions of the president, as he systematically screws up everything from our allies to our enemies. The guy just declassified a report that has been secret for 28 years about many European countries nuclear capabilities, but redacted the information on everyone except Israel. What is going on there? (Try not to avoid this question).

You seem to be in favor of something similar to North Korea.


Tone it down with the personal attacks. If you can't make a well reasoned argument and have to resort to these attacks, then maybe it's time to rethink your position.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Don't grown ups typically pay their own way in life? Perhaps if Bibi wants to be a grown up he could start by not coming here cup in hand all the time wanting more U.S. taxpayer money.
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So, grown ups pay their own way in life, so we should basically cut off all foreign aid? Do you know what a disaster that would be?

Oh, and your entire premise is wrong, since the entire democrat party is based on grown ups not paying their own way. Wrong on both counts.
 
Anthony60 said:
So, grown ups pay their own way in life, so we should basically cut off all foreign aid? Do you know what a disaster that would be?

Oh, and your entire premise is wrong, since the entire democrat party is based on grown ups not paying their own way. Wrong on both counts.
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The whole point of foreign aid is to either:

1. Provide disaster relief.

or

2. Get what want.
 
Montecresto said:
Netanyahu's twenty five year history of crying wolf on Iranian nuclear capabilities, and your support of this freak places the two of you in the privy.
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So the President acts like a 5 year old and the lefts defense is to do the same ?

Insults and irrelevant rhetoric and conspiracy theories ? Lol !!
 
Fenton said:
Youre unnatural and possibly unhealthy obsession with our last President doesn't negate the fact that Iraq citizens, even Women were allowed to vote for the first time in their lives.

Now, Iraq is a absolute mess as a evil murderous hoard tears into and over takes towns once liberated by American forces.
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Because they got to vote, does not make a democracy! Are you unaware of all the things that form a democracy?
 
Blue_State said:
You believe we should treat all of our allies the way we are currently treating Israel? Do you see there has been a clear shift on our international dealings with Israel in the last few years?
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Yes, we are being slightly more even handed with them yet still sending them billions a year. Cry me a river...
 
Anthony60 said:
I cut out all the emotional, baseless stuff, since it is useless. As well as the personal attack (see below).
Well, I had to leave some in there, otherwise there is nothing to respond to. So, let's take this apart now...

Okay so, out of the blue, you claim I'm not thinking about American interests. Which is funny, because Israel is our ally, Iran is our enemy, and you want Israel to be left on it's own, no protection from us, their ally, and you want Iran to be allowed to go ahead with their nuclear program. Pretty bizarre!

Oh, I am supporting America, Obama is not.

Next, even more outrageous, it is somehow treason to question the actions of the president, as he systematically screws up everything from our allies to our enemies. The guy just declassified a report that has been secret for 28 years about many European countries nuclear capabilities, but redacted the information on everyone except Israel. What is going on there? (Try not to avoid this question).

You seem to be in favor of something similar to North Korea.


Tone it down with the personal attacks. If you can't make a well reasoned argument and have to resort to these attacks, then maybe it's time to rethink your position.
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To the bolded, second paragraph. That's the problem, that needn't be, but you're incapable of recognizing the decades of US policy that has hurt that nation.
 
All Netanyahu had to do was give a speech declaring "Death to America" and Obama would be singing his praises today.
 
Fenton said:
So the President acts like a 5 year old and the lefts defense is to do the same ?

Insults and irrelevant rhetoric and conspiracy theories ? Lol !!
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Correct. For twenty five years Netanyahu has advanced a conspiracy theory on Iranian nukes.
 
WillyPete said:
You don't know Obama's motivations. You presume to know.

If I was Iran, I'd make formally announcing this information part of the negotiations. It helps to rationalize why Iran wants nukes that their main strategic opponent in the region already has them. It acknowledges our role in assisting them to acquire them. It's an open secret.

It's a minor concession, and an easy one to grant.
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Nonsense.

Of-course I know his motivations.

There's nothing complicated about his Machivalian tendencies.

He's " punishing his enemy " or rather throwing a temper tantrum after Israelis reminded him of just how little influence he has.

He was exposed as a irrelevant meddler and now he's going to take it out on the Citizens of one of our closest allies.
 
Montecresto said:
Correct. For twenty five years Netanyahu has advanced a conspiracy theory on Iranian nukes.
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Lol !!!

Yep, they need all those centrifuges so they can produce " cheap " electricity while they fund Hamas, scream " death to America " and threaten to obliterate their neighbor.

Lol !! Do you ever read the nonsense you post ?
 
Fenton said:
Nonsense.

Of-course I know his motivations.

There's nothing complicated about his Machivalian tendencies.

He's " punishing his enemy " or rather throwing up tantrum after Israelis reminded him of just how little influence he has.

He was exposed as a irrelevant meddler and now he's going to take it out on the Citizens of one of our closest allies.
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Must be nice to know the unknowable. I could see that coming in handy.

If he wanted to punish Israel harshly, he could withhold our aid. He could slam the door on that rapidly, and it would take months for congress to reverse it, possibly to the end of his term.
 
Montecresto said:
To the bolded, second paragraph. That's the problem, that needn't be, but you're incapable of recognizing the decades of US policy that has hurt that nation.
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Great, well thought out response... not. So you've got nothing. You've backed up your claims with nothing. Again, we should support our president no matter what, as he leads us down a ruinous path? We should negotiate with a terrorist nation, that lies about their nuclear program, that wants nukes and ICBMs, and have voiced their intention to use them. Back that one up too.
 
Anthony60 said:
Great, well thought out response... not. So you've got nothing. You've backed up your claims with nothing. Again, we should support our president no matter what, as he leads us down a ruinous path? We should negotiate with a terrorist nation, that lies about their nuclear program, that wants nukes and ICBMs, and have voiced their intention to use them. Back that one up too.
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Try being honest for one time. I've been highly critical of Obama policies in the region, how many times have I pointed out the mistakes of removing Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad? On the issue of Iran, and their nuclear program in particular, I support what he's doing, obviously so long as it works. And at this point neither he or the rest of us know if it will. But diplomacy is preferred to the McCain/Netanyahu position.
 
Blue_State said:
They should be our prostitute because we send them money.

Even handed...that isn't even close to correct.
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Yes, that is whole point of foreign aid. We provide foreign aid for 2 reasons:

1. Disaster relief.

Or.

2. To get what we want.

We fully support Israel at the U.N., provide them with all sorts of military aid, and have their back should they be attacked. Just because we are not willing to start yet another war for them and protentially expend thousands of American lives and hundreds of billions of dollars for a war in Iran does not mean that all of a sudden we are treating the country like ****.
 
Fenton said:
Lets see....

He backed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

He created a huge Power vacuum by pulling all American Military assets out of Iraq which ffacilitiesated ISILs mumurderous campaign.

He did the same thing in Lybia. He traded 5 Terrorist for a Deserter and had his underlings perpetuate false narratives about Bergdahl serving with " honor and distinction "

He's currently teying to strike a deal with Iran that would allow them to eventually continue their nuclear weapons ambitions.

His administration stuck their nose into UMass's decision to NOT allow Iranian Nationals into any courses that would teach them Nuclear science.

UMass of-course had to change their admissions restrictions.

He iInterjected himself on a unprecedented scale into the Israeli elections and NOW he's revealed their Nuclear capabilities.

His State Department took Hamas off the Terrorist list.

I'm seeing a pattern here. Thats he's not a bumbling fool, but doing these things on purpose in a attempt to undermine the Security of one of our Allies.

And he's doing it KNOWING that his Foreign Policy decisions are going to lead to more violence.

This seems dangerous to me. A President that seeks to create more chaos instead of Security
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Mycroft said:
Sorry, but a policy our country has had since the 80's is just as important today as it was then and changing that policy is not "routine". Add to that the fact that Obama doesn't do ANYTHING that doesn't help him politically and what we are left with is Obama thinking this is going to help him somehow. That "somehow" is the question and I have a few ideas...all of which have to do with Iran.

1. He thinks this action will put him in good light with Iran so they will be inclined to negotiate. Heck, maybe Iran set this as a condition and he is complying.

2. We know he doesn't like Israel's rhetoric, action and possible action concerning Iran. This could be a warning. Stop that stuff or we'll release even more information.

3. It's possible Obama doesn't believe Iran can be prevented from gaining a bomb, has decided that it's better to join them if he can't fight them and what better way to join them than to release confirmation about Israel's nuclear program.

Given Obama's past actions, I'm inclined to go with number 3...but either of the other two are entirely possible.
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I like #1 better, simply because Obama has been kissing Iran's ass since he came on scene. His early speeches leave little doubt that he is so desperately trying to stand out, to carve another notch in his belt of leaving a legacy of befriending the Iranian regime. Yes, the regime, because if he were remotely concerned about the Iranian people, he would have stepped in when he had the chance to support a change from within.
And he does all that while disregarding the dangers coming from that regime, dangers that could have worldwide impact and put all of us in grave danger.
Israel politics aside, Iran is the provocateur.
 
Lovebug said:
I like #1 better, simply because Obama has been kissing Iran's ass since he came on scene. His early speeches leave little doubt that he is so desperately trying to stand out, to carve another notch in his belt of leaving a legacy of befriending the Iranian regime. Yes, the regime, because if he were remotely concerned about the Iranian people, he would have stepped in when he had the chance to support a change from within.
And he does all that while disregarding the dangers coming from that regime, dangers that could have worldwide impact and put all of us in grave danger.
Israel politics aside, Iran is the provocateur.
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US interference in foreign countries internal affairs has done enough damage. Now your advocating that Obama should have injected US interference and influence in Iran's internal affairs. You may not yet realize it but some of the world is finished with US interference and hegemony, and they're pushing back.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Yes, that is whole point of foreign aid. We provide foreign aid for 2 reasons:

1. Disaster relief.

Or.

2. To get what we want.

We fully support Israel at the U.N., provide them with all sorts of military aid, and have their back should they be attacked. Just because we are not willing to start yet another war for them and protentially expend thousands of American lives and hundreds of billions of dollars for a war in Iran does not mean that all of a sudden we are treating the country like ****.
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Quick, grab a paper bag before you hyperventilate further.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Yes, that is whole point of foreign aid. We provide foreign aid for 2 reasons:

1. Disaster relief.

Or.

2. To get what we want.

We fully support Israel at the U.N., provide them with all sorts of military aid, and have their back should they be attacked. Just because we are not willing to start yet another war for them and protentially expend thousands of American lives and hundreds of billions of dollars for a war in Iran does not mean that all of a sudden we are treating the country like ****.
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Two things;

A) Iran isn't just Israel's problem. Israel has the most to lose, but Iran is also the problem of France, the UK, Germany, Spain, Italy, Canada, Finland, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, etc. etc. etc. and yes of the United States of Death to America as well. So trying to present an hypothetical declaration of war on Iran as "going to war for Israel" isn't honest.

B) The American foreign aid to Israel, which makes ~1% of Israel's GDP, does not somehow remove Israel's sovereignty as a state. America supports Israel militarily and diplomatically because the two nations share both values and geopolitical interests. The relations are clearly asymmetrical as one nation is the biggest empire on the planet while the other is a tiny nation of 8 million souls, but that doesn't mean that the US "doesn't get anything" from it as you've previously falsely claimed. Just to name one field, the Israeli-American cooperation in military research had seen a lot of successes and many of the systems that American soldiers use on the battlefield are the product of Israeli scientists, or have Israeli-added features in them. To conclude it's false to portray the Israeli-American relationship as something that isn't benefiting America, and if it was true there wouldn't be any relationship to begin with.
 
Montecresto said:
US interference in foreign countries internal affairs has done enough damage. Now your advocating that Obama should have injected US interference and influence in Iran's internal affairs. You may not yet realize it but some of the world is finished with US interference and hegemony, and they're pushing back.
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Didn't stop him from interfering in Egypt, Libya, Syria, or Yemen.
 
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