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Thread: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

  1. #281
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Everyone knew that a shia majority country would vote for a shia government that would be a puppet of Iran, a shia country.
    That's an interesting claim. Do you think that every sunni country who elects sunni leadership is a puppet of Saudi Arabia? If an area is heavily jewish here in the united states, and they elect jewish leadership, does that make them a puppet of Israel?

    Maliki had an alliance between moderate Shia, moderate Sunni, and the Kurds, but it required us to undergird. Then we said "nope, you're on your own", and so he abandoned that alliance to side with the Sadrists (who could sustain him absent our presence), arrested his Sunni Vice President literally as the last US soldier pulled out, and, well, that's that.

    Iraqi nationalism was a real thing. Iraqi Shia fought proudly and well against Iran in the Iraq-Iran war. I never saw them happier than when the Iraqi soccer team beat the Saudis. Flags everywhere. It didn't have to end up like this

  2. #282
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat

    ... Israel over the years has been given over 120 Billion dollars in foreign aid from the United States. That is over $15,000 for every individual in the country paid for by U.S. taxpayers and in return their government insults our president, undermines negotiations and spies on us. Moreover, we hardly get anything for it....
    $120 Billion is over a period of 67 YEARS...
    it's about what we have spent in Iraq/Afghanistan EACH and EVERY YEAR for more than a Decade.

    Not too bad for what he Have gotten/Forgotten.
    You Spin the numbers quite Disingenuously and call Israel ungrateful and Insulting- but even then, it's to ONE President only.
    In that speech, Netanyahu was NOT insulting, he was complimentary, just making the speech Desperately necessary to his country's best interest. Read the Transcript.
    Further:

    Hiding Israel's Contribution to the US Military - Op-Eds - Arutz Sheva

    For years, Israel has been America's secret weapon in defending the interests and lives of the people of the United States.

    While the US wants and needs Israel's assistance in securing "human intelligence" (humint) - on-ground intelligence - about what Arab terrorists and Arab rogue nations are planning against America, it does not want to admit that Israel is its irreplaceable source for such deep intel. Israel reluctantly accepts this policy, because America is Israel's ally and friend, but the Jewish state resents this effort to appease Arab nations.

    General George Keegan (now deceased), former head of America's Air Force Intelligence, unabashedly and repeatedly stated publically during his life that, "Israel is worth five CIAs" with respect to the intelligence passed to their American counterparts....

    Some may recall the extraordinary assistance Israel rendered to America's military as they were mobilizing their forces to invade Saddam Hussein's Iraq in 1990. Israel briefed America's Military Intelligence on what they had learned through Israeli agents planted deep in Iraq's regime. Additionally, Israel provided an air umbrella of their aircraft
    [.....]
    Bush, Baker and Colin Powell had formed a fake coalition of Arab nations who did virtually nothing to assist the American and British forces. All they did was to loan their names...
    [.....]
    As 39 SCUDs hit Israel, she, for her very real contribution, got a Phoney promise that the US Administration would task their pilots to hit the SCUD missile launchers....
    The Chief of Israel's Air Force said over and over that there were No American sorties against the SCUD launchers, but no one believed him. Had the Israelis been allowed to send their own pilots against the launchers, perhaps the SCUD missile wouldn't have hit the American barracks in Saudi Arabia, killing 28 Marines.

    One could go back further in Israel's assistance to her ally, America, when she captured Soviet missile systems, radar systems and planes - all of which were sent back to America for inspection. Billions of dollars would have been spent on reverse engineering to learn how to defend against them had US industry not had the captured Soviet equipment and experience that Israel sent to America. Israel's assistance shortened the number of man-hours and money to develop counter-measures against Soviet technology, missiles, radar frequencies and more. Israel, despite her minuscule size, gave back to her ally, America, more than any other nation...

    Israel developed disposable aircraft fuel containers, allowing fighter aircraft to extend their flying and fighting range.
    As I recall, the 'thank you' they received from then-Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger was the transfer of this technology to Saudi Arabia and Egypt...
    [.....]
    I recall when the American M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank, then in first production, using a turbine engine, was failing in every phase of its construction. It sucked up sand, its suspension could not take the punishment, its bearings ate sand, its firing systems on the run were inadequate, etc. Then they called upon Israel's General Israel Tal, who had fathered the Merkava, to assist in de-bugging the M1A1..
    [.....]
    Israel has been the first and most competent developer of UAVs now used by America's Navy, Army, Marines and Air Force in battle....

    Presently, American troops are being trained by Israelis on fighting techniques in urban combat
    , saving American lives. The Israelis learned the hard way how to fight terrorists for over 50 years - in Gaza, Jenin, Hebron...
    ...
    Last edited by mbig; 03-27-15 at 07:58 PM.
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  3. #283
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    WTF? It was our guys messing with their politics. And YOU DONT PUT EVERY OTHER INFORMATION SHARING AGREEMENT YOU HAVE AT RISK BECAUSE YOU ARE UPSET THAT YOU FAILED TO TO TOPPLE THE LEADERSHIP OF AN ALLY.
    After the Midterms Obama told Hillary that she would get no support from him because he was convinced that she was the reason Americans overwhelmingly voted against Obama's policies.

    Instead of realizing that HE and his Policies were to blame he created this narrative that absolved his administration from the huge losses sustained in the Midterms.

    Obama thought he could influence the Israeli election ( to be fair his meddling probably helped BiBi win ) and when that backfired he threw the equivalent of a Temper tantrum.

    I remember when Conservatives use to get criticized for calling him a Narcissist.

    Well, thanks for the vindication Obama.

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    They didn't vote the way we wanted. Democracy only counts if you elect people Barack Obama approves of.
    Yep.

    These perennial losses Obama's having to endure SHOULD humble him and maybe even provoke some introspection.

    Maybe he's just a little slow.

  5. #285
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Yep.

    These perennial losses Obama's having to endure SHOULD humble him and maybe even provoke some introspection.

    Maybe he's just a little slow.
    Everyone around him who would have encouraged introspection or wisdom has been pushed out.

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Everyone around him who would have encouraged introspection or wisdom has been pushed out.
    Including many military top brass, who know what they are talking about. Is there no legal way to stop him from doing what he wants to do in any and all situations...which the Supreme Court has ruled is overreach of his authority?

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Everyone around him who would have encouraged introspection or wisdom has been pushed out.
    It would seem he may have a personality disorder thats never been addressed.

    The product of decades of coddling and access to top Liberal Arts Universities without the advantage of the challenges that would have led to a appreciation of humility has produced a President who cannot put his personal issues aside even when it comes to addressing serious Foreign Policy issues.

    My literal genius of a half sister had to settle for Rice University because Occidental was too difficult to get into.

    I guarantee he has never had to compromise on anything substantial and it shows. Democrats try to blame the GOP for his refusal to lead but the fact is all Presidents had to deal with oppositional Congresses.

    Clinton had to deal with Newt Gingrich of all people but he did, and together they accomplished some positive things.

    Obama's a idelogue, not a leader. His world view takes precedent and all those that oppose that ideology are cut and dry " enemies " that have to be punished.

  8. #288
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It is nice to be the biggest kid on the block. Should we make ourselves smaller simply to be fair? Or should we not stand up for our own interests?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    How about making thoughtful Foreign Policy decisions and putting aside petty disagreements ?

    How about not showing the World that their secrets are safe as long as you dont insult our President ?

    How about dialogue instead of threarthreatening the Secutity of all ISRAELIS because you didn't get your way ?
    I think Fenton here summed it up pretty good.
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  9. #289
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    $120 Billion is over a period of 67 YEARS...
    it's about what we have spent in Iraq/Afghanistan EACH and EVERY YEAR for more than a Decade.

    Not too bad for what he Have gotten/Forgotten.
    You Spin the numbers quite Disingenuously and call Israel ungrateful and Insulting- but even then, it's to ONE President only.
    In that speech, Netanyahu was NOT insulting, he was complimentary, just making the speech Desperately necessary to his country's best interest. Read the Transcript.
    Further:

    Hiding Israel's Contribution to the US Military - Op-Eds - Arutz Sheva
    Many in his own country were against him coming here so close to the election and addressing congress without being invited by the President. Moreover, you are making an absurd comparison in comparing foreign aid to the costs of war and occupation. Mind you, the war in Iraq was heavily lobbied for by the Israeli lobby here in the United States.

    As I said earlier, I don't take handouts from anyone, friends, family, anyone, because I don't want anyone owning me. If Bibi wants to insult the president, undermine our foreign policy and negotiations, and spy on us, then fine, just don't ask for our money.

    This is what kills me. The right wingers on here venerate and quote the Founding Fathers as though they were gods. Does anyone think that George Washington or any of our early leaders or founders would be cool with a foreign government having a powerful and well funded lobby in the United States that did nothing but try to influence our policy and get money out of us, and for that same government then to insult our president and undermine our foreign policy and negotiations with other countries? I would put a paycheck on them not being too cool with that one, but that is exactly the kind of crap the right wingers are on here vehemently defending.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  10. #290
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It is nice to be the biggest kid on the block. Should we make ourselves smaller simply to be fair? Or should we not stand up for our own interests?
    That is what some of these guys on here don't seem to get. We basically have one real interest in the Middle East, to make sure its stable enough that the oil there keeps flowing. That is all. Fighting wars for Israel is not usually in our interest. Deposing contained dictators and spending trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives trying to democratize the place only for them to elect puppets of Iran for a government is not in our interest. Blindly backing everything the government of Israel does no matter what simply because a bunch of fundies over here think that is God's will, is not always in our interest.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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