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Thread: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

  1. #251
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Of course I do. Do you know what ANY RECIPIENT means? What about ASSIST?
    It doesn't appear like you do. Where is it stated that the United States had helped Israel gain nuclear weapons?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yeah, and thanks to Israel's bull**** and hush-hush nature, we'd be bluffing our way through any sanctions too. Again Travis, you've ignored that Israel's deliberate ambiguity (that's their actual policy, not flowery language) while pushing for everyone else to abide with standards it doesn't follow on nuclear power is the problem.
    I am shocked, but also super happy to see a libertarian perspective in these arguments coming from you.

    one correction though:

    pushing for everyone else to abide with standards it doesn't follow on nuclear power is a problem, not the problem

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    The Mossad said nothing in the SA "leak" (which wasn't a leak at all since the document was public) which could be understood as "Iran is after nuclear energy, not nuclear weapons" so not only are you wrong you are also misleading. To believe that Iran is not after nuclear weapons when it keeps nuclear facilities secret from the international community and was willing to risk sanctions for the purpose of gaining an alternative to the oil it has plenty of is not merely delusional, it's insane.
    You were already notified that
    you don't need to be signed on an agreement to demand that someone who is signed on it will be held to its restrictions.



    Play it however you'd like to Iran calls for Israel's destruction and acts against its soldiers, civilians and interests through the use of proxy terror organizations, not the other way around. Your claims that Israel wants to gain something from the Iranian issue other than not having a nuclear Iran, saying that it's only objecting to a nuclear Iran so it can "do whatever it wants" (what that might be I have no damned idea) are simply delusional.
    this makes no sense
    israel has the opportunity to execute the NPT, but has chosen not to be a NPT member
    and thus relinquishes any ability to decide if/how the NPT will be enforced

    it's as if you think nonmembers get to decide the rules of a country club to which you do not belong
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    this makes no sense
    israel has the opportunity to execute the NPT, but has chosen not to be a NPT member
    and thus relinquishes any ability to decide if/how the NPT will be enforced

    it's as if you think nonmembers get to decide the rules of a country club to which you do not belong
    Only that unfortunately it's not a country club.
    I am not affected by the laws of Spain, but I do think people in Spain need to adhere to their laws.

    Regardless Israel has every right to demand nations that have signed international agreements to be upheld to those agreements.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    An article that contradicts the claims being made in the guardian's article, yes, and I've also contradicted the claims myself
    Only it doesn't and the claims are in fact contradicted. If your claim is that Iran is in fact seeking weapons and then your intelligence saying it's not doing anything to get them is a contradiction.

    Do read it, your avoidance from learning facts is the main reason for your delusional conclusions.

    And if it isn't performing the activities necessary to produce a nuclear weapon yet, does it suddenly mean that it's not working towards getting there? Obviously not.
    Sorry, you can't say that it's working towards something while not working towards something. That's absurd.

    Now that's the dumbest remark so far. You can build the actual nuclear weapon, once you have the required amount of enriched materials, within far less than a year.
    Ummm nobody said otherwise. The picture Netanyahu is painting is that Iran is working on the bomb. Against evidence from Mossad that's it's not taking any activities do get that done.

    And where is it stated that the US had helped Israel gain nuclear weapons? And you do realize that France had only signed the NPT in 1992, so you can't really violate a treaty you weren't even signed on at the time, right? Because it doesn't look so.
    That's a pretty sneaky way to run away from the fact that the treaty also dealt with recognized nuclear powers (of which France, Britain and the US were one of). Not just countries who signed it. The best is how you ignored Britain. I guess it didn't fit your argument?

    What does it have to do with me, exactly?
    Did I make note of the fact that you promote a nuclear Iran, or did I discuss your (delusional) remarks such as the hilarious remark that Iran is after nuclear energy for "peaceful reasons"?
    Well, you went on about you found disgusting, and I gave you my thoughts on what you find disgusting. I'll take them with a grain of salt.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Only that unfortunately it's not a country club.
    I am not affected by the laws of Spain, but I do think people in Spain need to adhere to their laws.
    you can think whatever you want
    but the reality is you have no basis to include yourself in the manner in which spain's laws are followed
    just like israel relative to enforcement of the provisions of the NPT

    Regardless Israel has every right to demand nations that have signed international agreements to be upheld to those agreements.
    wrong once more
    israel has zero rights relative to the enforcement of the NPT
    it is not a party to the contract/agreement/treaty
    it has NO standing and thus has NO say about the NPT
    like all of us, it can have an opinion ... but nothing more
    sucks. doesn't it
    maybe y'all should have decided to sign the NPT
    but until you do, israel needs to shut the **** up about anything to do with enforcing the terms of the treaty
    as someone earlier noted, israel has as much entitlement to participate in the matters of the NPT as it does to NAFTA
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Only it doesn't and the claims are in fact contradicted. If your claim is that Iran is in fact seeking weapons and then your intelligence saying it's not doing anything to get them is a contradiction.

    Sorry, you can't say that it's working towards something while not working towards something. That's absurd.
    There are two phases; A) Gathering materials B) Creating the actual weapon
    Mossad saying that phase B has not begun yet is in full accordance with the previous statements of the Israeli government that the Iranian regime has yet to have made it to the phase of bomb-creation.
    It is so obvious that no one even felt the need to respond to the laughable assertion that Israel had just claimed in a public report to SA that Iran is not after nuclear weapons at all.

    Ummm nobody said otherwise. The picture Netanyahu is painting is that Iran is working on the bomb. Against evidence from Mossad that's it's not taking any activities do get that done.
    No, Netanyahu is painting a picture that Iran is working towards the bomb, that means it's in phase A and it's still enriching.
    The moment it has enough material it can easily break within a short time towards the bomb itself, and that's what Israel as well as half the planet are looking to avoid.

    That's a pretty sneaky way to run away from the fact that the treaty also dealt with recognized nuclear powers (of which France, Britain and the US were one of). Not just countries who signed it. The best is how you ignored Britain. I guess it didn't fit your argument?
    I didn't apply to the fact that Israel is not a signatory of the NPT but to the fact that France wasn't, at the time it allegedly helped Israel, so that's some reading comprehension problems there, and I do recall asking for reference to where is it stated that the US had aided Israel in gaining nuclear weapons. I will also add a request for reference to a French or British aid made in that report.

    Well, you went on about you found disgusting, and I gave you my thoughts on what you find disgusting. I'll take them with a grain of salt.
    You can take them with a grain of enriched uranium for all I care.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you can think whatever you want
    but the reality is you have no basis to include yourself in the manner in which spain's laws are followed
    just like israel relative to enforcement of the provisions of the NPT
    The discussion was whether it was hypocritical or not to ask nations to be held to agreements they have signed.
    You have clearly gotten it wrong.

    wrong once more
    israel has zero rights relative to the enforcement of the NPT
    it is not a party to the contract/agreement/treaty
    it has NO standing and thus has NO say about the NPT
    like all of us, it can have an opinion ... but nothing more
    sucks. doesn't it
    maybe y'all should have decided to sign the NPT
    but until you do, israel needs to shut the **** up about anything to do with enforcing the terms of the treaty
    as someone earlier noted, israel has as much entitlement to participate in the matters of the NPT as it does to NAFTA
    You don't need to be signed on an international agreement to be calling for the world to uphold another nation to that agreement.
    It isn't Israel that is upholding nations to the NPT.
    You're being absurd and you're not making sense, if you ever believed that you do.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    There are two phases; A) Gathering materials B) Creating the actual weapon
    Mossad saying that phase B has not begun yet is in full accordance with the previous statements of the Israeli government that the Iranian regime has yet to have made it to the phase of bomb-creation.
    That's not what Mossad said. It said it wasn't performing the activities required for it.

    No, Netanyahu is painting a picture that Iran is working towards the bomb, that means it's in phase A and it's still enriching.

    ...

    The moment it has enough material it can easily break within a short time towards the bomb itself, and that's what Israel as well as half the planet are looking to avoid.
    More delusions about being blown out of the sky.

    I didn't apply to the fact that Israel is not a signatory of the NPT but to the fact that France wasn't, at the time it allegedly helped Israel, so that's some reading comprehension problems there, and I do recall asking for reference to where is it stated that the US had aided Israel in gaining nuclear weapons. I will also add a request for reference to a French or British aid made in that report.
    France was one of the recognized powers of the NPT. Good grief, the fact that the US has kept its secret for so long while Israel gathers the weapons is the proof. It's like you being fully that your neighbor killed someone, and keeping their secret because you're good friends. Are you f'n serious?

    You can take them with a grain of enriched uranium for all I care.
    I'm sure you believe that you'll do that long before anybody in the US .
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    There is nothing to suggest we declassified any information about Israel's nuclear program other than they have it and we knew they had it. Which is what everyone knew anyway and the fact we did not ever admit it only made us look like hypocrites. Israel over the years has been given over 120 Billion dollars in foreign aid from the United States. That is over $15,000 for every individual in the country paid for by U.S. taxpayers and in return their government insults our president, undermines negotiations and spies on us. Moreover, we hardly get anything for it. It is not like they sit on a bunch of oil or anything. Look, we own them, if they don't like that, then get off the U.S. taxpayers dime. Personally I don't take money as a handout from anyone because I don't want anyone owning me, but if I did, I sure as hell would not insult them later. I just think the country's government obviously needs to be put in its place a little bit, and I see no problem with doing it.
    I can't really disagree beyond the fact that my understanding was that the declassified documents contained a great deal of what was once Top Secret information on Israel's complete nuclear program. Other than that, I pretty much agree with you that they take our money then spy on us and stab us in the back when convenient. That hasn't always been the case, but it is the case with the Israeli government under Netanyahu and probably a few others along the way.

    We just should not have done this, if for no other reason than the message it sends to the rest of our allies: We'll keep your secrets... if we feel like it and you make nice with us.

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