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Thread: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

  1. #231
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    So your problem is that they voted wrong.....



    Oh yes, naturally. Because when I look at the other Baathist regime in the area (Syria), gosh, I see just a bastion of peace and stability and no extremists at all....



    They wanted the same thing from Bush. I guess The Smartest President Ever just wasn't as good a negotiator as his predecessor?


    Maliki was willing to go to bat to get that requirement waived if we were willing to leave enough troops to make it worth his while by supporting the coalition that al-Maliki was building between moderate Shia, moderate Sunni, and the Kurds. Then the White House torpedoed the talks by inserting a ceiling of 5,000 troops at the last minute, and the coalition fell apart (the administration also apparently tasked Joe Biden with the role of keeping it together, whether that was deliberate sabotage or not is anyone's guess). Maliki had no choice but to join with the Sadrists if he wanted to retain his position, which meant he could no longer get the requirement waved.

    The President wanted us out by the 2012 election, and he made sure we got out.
    Everyone knew that a shia majority country would vote for a shia government that would be a puppet of Iran, a shia country. So the best case scenario when we went into Iraq back in 2003 is that we would depose a dictator that was fully contained and a mortal enemy of Iran and at some point there would be elections where that country would then elect a government that was a puppet of Iran.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    We both know that Israel's opposition is to an Iran nuclear program period. Not just Iran having nuclear weapons.
    We both know (or at least I seriously hope so) that that is because Israel does not want to see a nuclear-armed Iran, not because it doesn't want Iran to use nuclear energy for peaceful means. Israel has no concern regarding Iran's economic decisions.

    It's like trying to tell people to be law abiding citizens when you're siting in prison. It's hypocritical at best.
    Only that Israel is not in violation of laws and as such it's completely fine for it to tell people from a different country who need to abide by different laws that they should abide by these laws.

    What I'm talking about is that it's getting clearer and clearer that Israel's constant cries of "they want wants to kill us!" is just a cop-out for doing whatever the hell it wants. It got the US to play cover for its nuclear program for 28 years while it avoided having to answer the same questions it asked everyone else answer.
    That's delusional at best and does not warrant a serious comment.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Do you live in Idaho? Chances are the answer is nope (and if you do then choose another state which you don't live in).
    Nope, which is why I can't vote in Idaho or for that matter have any ground to demand any serious change in the politics of Idaho. At a federal level? Sure I pay my taxes like everyone else and can discuss an issue concerning constitutional politics. However, any state issue is really their problem at the end of the day.However, we're not talking about voicing a political opinion. We're discussing the US pretending to have some mandate to make other countries deal with UN inspectors and wanting to deal with non-proliferation while turning a blind eye for 3 decades to Israel's proliferation of nuclear weapons. What makes me sick about this entire thing is how many signatories of the NTP are involved in this issue. How could the US have been so f'n stupid for so long.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    We both know (or at least I seriously hope so) that that is because Israel does not want to see a nuclear-armed Iran, not because it doesn't want Iran to use nuclear energy for peaceful means. Israel has no concern regarding Iran's economic decisions.
    Good grief, the NPT is about NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Not nuclear as a source of power which is what Iran seems to be after (as corroborate by Mossad's admission to SA on the matter). However, as Israel isn't even a signatory to the agreement, it doesn't have a right to ask others to abide by it, much less attempt to others nuclear power for any reason.

    Only that Israel is not in violation of laws and as such it's completely fine for it to tell people from a different country who need to abide by different laws that they should abide by these laws.
    The question of hypocrisy isn't about Israel being in violation of laws. It's about Israel trying to get people to abide by something it's neither a signatory to or feels the need to abide by.

    That's delusional at best and does not warrant a serious comment.
    Delusional? Your entire defence of Israel's program and calls for transparency is based on the other guys supposedly want to destroy you when it's clear your country is less than upfront about its activities.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Nope, which is why I can't vote in Idaho or for that matter have any ground to demand any serious change in the politics of Idaho. At a federal level? Sure I pay my taxes like everyone else and can discuss an issue concerning constitutional politics. However, any state issue is really their problem at the end of the day.
    And Israel can't vote in NPT situations either. And you would have plenty of grounds to demand serious change if something that Idaho tried to enact could possibly affect your state. Such as tax provision that could take businesses away from your state and into ours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    However, we're not talking about voicing a political opinion. We're discussing the US pretending to have some mandate to make other countries deal with UN inspectors and wanting to deal with non-proliferation while turning a blind eye for 3 decades to Israel's proliferation of nuclear weapons. What makes me sick about this entire thing is how many signatories of the NTP are involved in this issue. How could the US have been so f'n stupid for so long.
    In this case the US DOES have a mandate to make sure that the countries that are signatory to the NPT allow UN inspectors come in and inspect their nuclear facilities. It is in fact a part of the treaty. Indeed the very NAME of the treaty (Non-Proliferation Treaty) implies that mandate in and of itself. And the reason that it "turns a blind eye to Israel's proliferation of nuclear weapons" is because Israel is not a signatory to the NPT. The US has no mandate to ensure that countries that are not signatory to the NPT follow it. That's not turning a blind eye. That is in fact not sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. Israel however does have to stick its nose in due to the fact that it is about national/self defense. Iran has repeatedly and publicly stated that it wants to wipe Israel off the map. That is a real national concern for Israel. Just as it would be a real national concern for any other country in the entire world. Just as we have a national concern were it concerns terrorist organizations in other countries that want to target us and our allies. We're out there doing everything that we can to ensure our (and our allies) safety. Just as Israel is ensuring its safety.
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    This alone demonstrates how ignorant you are of this issue. The SOFA negotiations occurred to 2 years before the 2012 election. We no longer had any forces in Iraq in 2012.
    LOL !!



    According to the video Obama never had any intention of leaving troops behind...

    Poor Obama was hampered by the previous administrations Foreign policy decisions and had no choice but to pull out all US Military assets.

    Unreal.

    What lengths you people will go to to defend the indefensible is impressive. Slimy but impressive.
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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Everyone knew that a shia majority country would vote for a shia government that would be a puppet of Iran, a shia country. So the best case scenario when we went into Iraq back in 2003 is that we would depose a dictator that was fully contained and a mortal enemy of Iran and at some point there would be elections where that country would then elect a government that was a puppet of Iran.
    So predictable, why wasn't it?? Wesley Clark told us.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Good grief, the NPT is about NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Not nuclear as a source of power which is what Iran seems to be after (as corroborate by Mossad's admission to SA on the matter). However, as Israel isn't even a signatory to the agreement, it doesn't have a right to ask others to abide by it, much less attempt to others nuclear power for any reason.
    The Mossad said nothing in the SA "leak" (which wasn't a leak at all since the document was public) which could be understood as "Iran is after nuclear energy, not nuclear weapons" so not only are you wrong you are also misleading. To believe that Iran is not after nuclear weapons when it keeps nuclear facilities secret from the international community and was willing to risk sanctions for the purpose of gaining an alternative to the oil it has plenty of is not merely delusional, it's insane.
    You were already notified that you don't need to be signed on an agreement to demand that someone who is signed on it will be held to its restrictions.

    Delusional? Your entire defence of Israel's program and calls for transparency is based on the other guys supposedly want to destroy you when it's clear your country is less than upfront about its activities.
    Play it however you'd like to Iran calls for Israel's destruction and acts against its soldiers, civilians and interests through the use of proxy terror organizations, not the other way around. Your claims that Israel wants to gain something from the Iranian issue other than not having a nuclear Iran, saying that it's only objecting to a nuclear Iran so it can "do whatever it wants" (what that might be I have no damned idea) are simply delusional.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And Israel can't vote in NPT situations either. And you would have plenty of grounds to demand serious change if something that Idaho tried to enact could possibly affect your state. Such as tax provision that could take businesses away from your state and into ours.
    Yep, it also can't get members of the NPT to provide it with technology for nuclear weapons or for that matter nuclear material. Yet it has.

    Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    These five NWS agree not to transfer "nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices" and "not in any way to assist, encourage, or induce" a non-nuclear weapon state (NNWS) to acquire nuclear weapons (Article I). NNWS parties to the NPT agree not to "receive," "manufacture" or "acquire" nuclear weapons or to "seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons" (Article II). NNWS parties also agree to accept safeguards by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to verify that they are not diverting nuclear energy from peaceful uses to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices (Article III).
    Which would be similar to me not voting in Idaho but somehow getting tax breaks from that state while living in VT.

    In this case the US DOES have a mandate to make sure that the countries that are signatory to the NPT allow UN inspectors come in and inspect their nuclear facilities. It is in fact a part of the treaty. Indeed the very NAME of the treaty (Non-Proliferation Treaty) implies that mandate in and of itself. And the reason that it "turns a blind eye to Israel's proliferation of nuclear weapons" is because Israel is not a signatory to the NPT. The US has no mandate to ensure that countries that are not signatory to the NPT follow it. That's not turning a blind eye. That is in fact not sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. Israel however does have to stick its nose in due to the fact that it is about national/self defense. Iran has repeatedly and publicly stated that it wants to wipe Israel off the map. That is a real national concern for Israel. Just as it would be a real national concern for any other country in the entire world. Just as we have a national concern were it concerns terrorist organizations in other countries that want to target us and our allies. We're out there doing everything that we can to ensure our (and our allies) safety. Just as Israel is ensuring its safety.
    It's obvious you don't even know that the US has been sharing nuclear technology (in violation of the NPT) for years, and that France shared technology with them (once again in violation of the NPT) and Britain has shared materials with Israel once again in violation of the NPT. For you to stand there and now state that it didn't turn a blind eye to Israel's actions when it was clearly violating the NPT itself is absurdly dishonest. Falling back on the usual nonsense of "they want to destroy Israel" won't help you look less hypocritical.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel's Nuclear Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Good grief, the NPT is about NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Not nuclear as a source of power which is what Iran seems to be after (as corroborate by Mossad's admission to SA on the matter). However, as Israel isn't even a signatory to the agreement, it doesn't have a right to ask others to abide by it, much less attempt to others nuclear power for any reason.
    Who's delusional ??

    Media Lens - NUCLEAR DECEIT - THE TIMES AND IRAN

    " On December 14, The Times announced that it had obtained documents about Iran's nuclear programme that revealed "a four-year plan to test a neutron initiator. This is the component of a nuclear weapon that triggers the explosion".

    Iran's Nuclear Capabilities Fast Facts - CNN.com


    Timeline:
    1957 - The United States signs a civil nuclear cooperation agreement with Iran.

    1958 - Iran joins the International Atomic Energy Agency.

    1967 - The Tehran Nuclear Research Center, which includes a small reactor supplied by the United States, opens.

    1968 - Iran signs the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

    Mid-1970s - With United States' backing, Iran begins developing a nuclear power program.

    1979 - Iran's Islamic revolution ends Western involvement in the country's nuclear program.

    December 1984 - With the aid of China, Iran opens a nuclear research center in Isfahan.

    February 23, 1998 - The United States announces concerns that Iran's nuclear energy program could lead to the development of nuclear weapons.

    March 14, 2000 - U.S. President Bill Clinton signs a law that allows sanctions against people and organizations that provide aid to Iran's nuclear program.

    February 21, 2003 - IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei visits Iran to survey its nuclear facilities and to encourage Iran to sign a protocol allowing IAEA inspectors greater and faster access to nuclear sites. Iran declines to sign the protocol. ElBaradei says he must accept Iran's statement that its nuclear program is for producing power and not weapons, despite claims of the United States to the contrary.

    June 19, 2003 - The IAEA issues a report saying that Iran appeared to be in compliance with the Non-Proliferation Treaty, but that it needed to be more open about its activities.

    August 2003 - The IAEA announces that its inspectors in Iran have found traces of highly enriched uranium at the Natanz uranium enrichment plant. Iran claims the amounts are contamination from equipment bought from other countries. Iran agrees to sign a protocol of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty that allows for unannounced visits to their nuclear facilities and signs it on December 18, 2003.

    October 2003 - The Foreign Ministers of Britain, France and Germany visit Tehran, and all parties agree upon measures Iran will take to settle all outstanding issues with the IAEA. Under obligation to the IAEA, Iran releases a dossier on its nuclear activities. However, the report does not contain information on where Iran acquired components for centrifuges used to enrich uranium, a fact the IAEA considers important in determining whether the uranium is to be enriched for weapons.


    February 2004 - A.Q. Khan, "father" of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program, admits to having provided Iran and other countries with uranium-enrichment equipment.

    June 1, 2004 - The IAEA states they have found traces of uranium that exceed the amount used for general energy production. Iran admits that it is importing parts for advanced centrifuges that can be used to enrich uranium, but is using the parts to generate electricity. The IAEA criticizes Iran for repeatedly misstating details and making contradictory statements about its nuclear program.

    May 23, 2007 - The IAEA delivers its latest report to the United Nations on Iran's nuclear activities. The report states that not only has Iran failed to end its uranium enrichment program but has in fact expanded activity in that area.


    February 18, 2010 - In a statement, the IAEA reports that it believes Iran may be working in secret to develop a nuclear warhead for a missile.

    September 2, 2011 - An IAEA report states that Iran continues to defy U.N. sanctions aimed at curbing its nuclear program and cited increasing concerns it may be developing nuclear weapons.

    May 25, 2012 - An IAEA report finds that environmental samples taken at the Fordo fuel enrichment plant near the city of Qom have enrichment levels of up to 27%, higher than the previous level of 20%.

    Why do Libs like being lied to ??
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