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Florida teen kills brother, wounds another after argument over food

MACS-24 said:
You should stop editing your posts. They keep going from already very bad to worse and really getting weighted down by strawmen.
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Do you believe children should be allowed to play with guns or not? Should parents be punished for allowing it?
 
iguanaman said:
Do you believe children should be allowed to play with guns or not? Should parents be punished for allowing it?
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Yes and No but that did not happen in this OP. We don't even know where the gun came from.

There is nothing wrong with kids and guns under adult supervision. Why should parents be punished for allowing it - that's just dumb. But again that has nothing to do with this thread.
 
MACS-24 said:
Yes and No but that did not happen in this OP. We don't even know where the gun came from.

There is nothing wrong with kids and guns under adult supervision. Why should parents be punished for allowing it - that's just dumb. But again that has nothing to do with this thread.
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What do you think the odds are that it came from a family member? Does it even matter to you anyway? I think not. You will say the minor broke the law by stealing the gun and the parents are blameless or were "punished enough". Blamelessness is part of the 2nd amendment I guess.
 
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iguanaman said:
You missed the point of course. It was that suicide rates go up when you have a gun available.
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No it's not. suicide with a gun goes up. Suicide still will happen if you take away the tool used it's replaced by pills, hanging, all forms of asphyxiation, jumping, etc.

Gun crime will still happen if you only focus on the gun.
 
iguanaman said:
What do you think the odds are that it came from a family member? Does it even matter to you anyway? I think not. You will say the minor broke the law by stealing the gun and the parents are blameless.
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Are you accusing me of having no value of life? Watch it.

It is clear you do not want a honest debate about the thread so good bye. :2wave:
 
iguanaman said:
What do you think the odds are that it came from a family member? Does it even matter to you anyway? I think not. You will say the minor broke the law by stealing the gun and the parents are blameless or were "punished enough". Blamelessness is part of the 2nd amendment I guess.
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The odds are very high that the gun belonged to a family member.

That still has nothing to do with gun legislation unless said family member should not have been in possession of a legal gun in the first place.
 
iguanaman said:
Does it even matter? Even if it was the parents gun there would be no charges because they have "suffered enough". That is what needs to be changed. Consequences for improper gun ownership needs to be law. The most common "use" for home weapons is to kill or injure the owner or his family and that is a travesty.
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Does it matter that gun control wouldn't have stopped this? Yes, it does. In order to remove a Constitutional right you have to have a reason.

Your evidence that the gun owner won't be charged is....what? Your evidence that this kid didn't steal the gun from his next door neighbor's trailer is....what? Do you even know if this is a legal gun? Kids are shooting each other in Chicago pretty much on a daily basis. What makes this story interesting, and not those?
 
tres borrachos said:
Does it matter that gun control wouldn't have stopped this? Yes, it does. In order to remove a Constitutional right you have to have a reason.

Your evidence that the gun owner won't be charged is....what? Your evidence that this kid didn't steal the gun from his next door neighbor's trailer is....what? Do you even know if this is a legal gun? Kids are shooting each other in Chicago pretty much on a daily basis. What makes this story interesting, and not those?
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I am not talking about gun control only gun safety and enforcement of it. I think many are far too blase about their guns especially if minors are in the household. I beleive it is possible to have a gun and NOT let it get into a minors hand without your supervision. I think that the way to do that is to punish those that fail that test. That is how we enforce other offenses that cause injury to others.
 
Hatuey said:
Well, when one argument fails, then you move on to another one. I just showed multibillion dollar franchise with real weapons, which contradicts your "fake weapon" nonsense and your best answer is that some games are cartoonish in their gun violence. Well, I'm sure that somehow... what? Addresses the notion that real guns are still being glamorized?
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Well. You mentioned Goldeneye and royalties. Goldeneye didn't have a single REAL named gun it. Who paid the royalties there? To who? You also didn't provide any evidence.

Additionally...

Great strawman. Does it work in the gun forum? :)
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You stated they were aimed at young people. Is young under 18? Because the games you are mentioning are rates M. Are you one of those people who assumes video games are for children? And then goes out and buys your kid all the video games without bothering to check the label?

You can complain about glorification of violence, but straight up bad parents should be your real concern. I was 13 and played games like golden eye. I knew where the key to the gun cabinet was too. Guess what never happened? It isn't a strawman. You are blaming video games and guns instead of the real issue.



The irony is just so delicious. I don't think I can take another bite. I wonder if it tastes as good a second time around?
 
iguanaman said:
I am not talking about gun control only gun safety and enforcement of it. I think many are far too blase about their guns especially if minors are in the household. I beleive it is possible to have a gun and NOT let it get into a minors hand without your supervision. I think that the way to do that is to punish those that fail that test. That is how we enforce other offenses that cause injury to others.
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And parents/adults ARE charged when children get their guns. Here are some examples from 2015 alone.

Parents shot by toddler charged with child abuse - CNN.com

Father charged criminally after 3-year-old son shot himself in the face | Q13 FOX News

Father charged after 3-year-old fires gun into home

Tangier Smith Elementary student, 11, brings unloaded handgun to school, dad arrested, cops say - Newsday
 
There is a mental health issue in this country that is not being addressed. It is so far out of control but we are just accepting of it now.
 
Schwartz said:
Obviously this incident could be avoided with no guns being present in the household
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Nobody wants to deprive you from the right to bear arms
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You can't....you can't make this crap up.

But hey, more power to you...I can't say it's how I react, but to each their own. Personally when I see dead kids I don't get giddy with glee at the mere thought of raping their dead bodies for the benefit of pushing a political agenda, but hey, different strokes for different folks I guess.
 
Schwartz said:
Florida teen kills brother, wounds another after argument over food | Fox News

Are we going to do something about it? Kids are dying one by one and absolutely nothing is being done. In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides. 73,505 Americans were treated in hospital emergency departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds in 2010.

Probably gun control is not a bad idea if you think? Obviously this incident could be avoided with no guns being present in the household. Nobody wants to deprive you from the right to bear arms, all we have to do is comply with stricter legislation. When grown up people die it is sad but when innocent kids suffer it becomes unbearable.
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Do what about it ?

What do you suggest ? Because " stricter gun laws " sure don't seem to have an impact in places like the South side of Chicago.

" Black lives matter ...."

Restricting law abiding Americans access to Guns when we've got a wide open southern border accomplishes what exactly ?

Nothing but giving the criminals who could care less about your new tougher regulations the upper hand against innocent Americans.

The truth is most Americans see through this type of demagoguery.
Progressives post some article that supposedly backs up their claims that gun violence is out of control and then they claim that no one wants to take peoples guns away but stronger laws are needed.

I don't think passing new Gun laws is possible right now anyway. Americans dont trust this administration and realize when Democrats talk about " inteligent restrictions " they really mean draconian measures to take firearms away from Americans.
 
reinoe said:
As soon as I heard about one kid killing another kid over food I knew this story would take place in The South.
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Instead of one kid killing another kid over drugs ? Like in the North ?
 
Fenton said:
Do what about it ?

What do you suggest ? Because " stricter gun laws " sure don't seem to have an impact in places like the South side of Chicago.

" Black lives matter ...."

Restricting law abiding Americans access to Guns when we've got a wide open southern border accomplishes what exactly ?

Nothing but giving the criminals who could care less about your new tougher regulations the upper hand against innocent Americans.

The truth is most Americans see through this type of demagoguery.
Progressives post some article that supposedly backs up their claims that gun violence is out of control and then they claim that no one wants to take peoples guns away but stronger laws are needed.

I don't think passing new Gun laws is possible right now anyway. Americans don't trust this administration and realize when Democrats talk about " inteligent restrictions " they really mean draconian measures to take firearms away from Americans.
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You are asking me about details before the decision is made. What do you want to hear from me know? Particular ways of implication, list of authorized weapons? Let the professionals decide. We are not in the position to decide what's the best option to stick to right now. Otherwise one of your guns-for-everyone colleagues is going to join the discussion and start mocking me for overestimating deadly force of particular Magnum or whatever.
I would be glad if our country-wide legislation looks like that in California where you can get the gun if you really want to but people do not purchase them simply because they can. That's the answer to your question.
 
Schwartz said:
At least there would be no anonymous guns around 13-year-old kids. Could anyone tell me what's so bad about stricter gun legislation? Those who want to obtain guns will be able to do so anyways. Those who need no gun - and therefore know nothings about safety and proper storage - will face some hurdles that will stop them from obtaining one.
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what is bad about stricter gun control is it doesn't stop crime and it is used to harass gun owners.
 
iguanaman said:
And allowing a gun to get into the hands of a minor is cause for celebration I guess. Is that also part of the 2nd ammendment? The right to allow your children to play with guns?
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that's really stupid. why do anti gun liberals come up with such silly interpretations of the 2A?
 
iguanaman said:
You missed the point of course. It was that suicide rates go up when you have a gun available.
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well how come Japan has a higher suicide rate than the USA?
 
The argument over the last slice of pizza should never become deadly.
 
reinoe said:
The argument over the last slice of pizza should never become deadly.
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at least not before anything short of "Escape from NY"
 
Schwartz said:
Florida teen kills brother, wounds another after argument over food | Fox News

Are we going to do something about it? Kids are dying one by one and absolutely nothing is being done. In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides. 73,505 Americans were treated in hospital emergency departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds in 2010.

Probably gun control is not a bad idea if you think? Obviously this incident could be avoided with no guns being present in the household. Nobody wants to deprive you from the right to bear arms, all we have to do is comply with stricter legislation. When grown up people die it is sad but when innocent kids suffer it becomes unbearable.
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If the six-year-old had a gun and the 16-year-old had a gun then this tragedy could've been averted. Would've been a hell of a Mexican standoff though.
 
Schwartz said:
You are asking me about details before the decision is made. What do you want to hear from me know? Particular ways of implication, list of authorized weapons? Let the professionals decide. We are not in the position to decide what's the best option to stick to right now. Otherwise one of your guns-for-everyone colleagues is going to join the discussion and start mocking me for overestimating deadly force of particular Magnum or whatever.
I would be glad if our country-wide legislation looks like that in California where you can get the gun if you really want to but people do not purchase them simply because they can. That's the answer to your question.
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Wait a minute.

What and who's standards define what or who a" Professional " is ?

Is it a Politician ? Someone who has experience in handling fire arms ?

This idea that the American people are too dumb to know whats best for their Republic stems from the argument that the Government knows best

That they alone should decide whats safe and beneficial for the greater good. This assertion is deeply flawed as it relies on the subjective definitions of some elected or worse, appointed individual and gives him the power to be implement standards that are absolutely arbitrary.

We are experiencing the unintended consequences of regulations and laws passed that were sold under the false pretense that only the Government could achieve " fairness and equity " for the Average consumer and American.

Are you ok with allowing some entity that answers to no one to have control over some aspect of your life ?

I'm sure not. " Sensible " Gun regulations is just a generic feel good term for restricting the rights of law abiding citizens.
 
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