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Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

No, this is not accurate at all.

Have you ever noticed those signs stating: "We reserve the right to refuse service"? Those signs are affirming that the owner retains the right to refuse service for reasons not centered on a protected ground. For example:

- Owner: You cant wear baggy pants here and other clothes that I deem to be street gang wear.
- Potential customer (black male): But I have legitimate business here.
- Owner: Then change clothes and come back.

In short, "Black male wearing bayy pants" is no more a protected class than "white male wearing a rebel pride T-shirt". Both of us can be refused, and I have seen it happen for the baggy pants guys. likewise, a group of CSA afficionados decked out in CSA uniforms was told to leave a shopping mall in Lousiana.

'We don't offer same sex marriage cakes. It's not a product offering in our product line.' ?
 
That of course is the goal, to force Christians (mostly) out of the marketplace unless they conform to the homosexual agenda. This is what passes for tolerance these days. Conform or be harmed

Christians that open their doors to the PUBLIC have to conform to the Muslim Agenda, the Jewish Agenda, the Atheist Agenda, the Black/Hispanic/Asian/Etc..... Agenda. I'm crying about them having to also conform to the Homosexual Agenda (TM) by having to serve them.... :boohoo:
 
Shame on the State of Indiana, especially their bigoted Governor and legislature. You would think that in 2015 we would be beyond this type of hatred and bigotry. This simply shows that for all the progress that America has made, we are still a long ways away from being a country that treats everyone fairly and equally. The bigots will lose.....but the battle remains.

everyone i know around here is outraged, so don't be so quick to paint the whole state with a broad brush. stickers are going up everywhere making it clear that everyone is welcome. Pence is the worst governor Indiana has had in my lifetime. unfortunately a majority voted for these dip****s or didn't vote; i think turnout was like twenty five percent. hopefully, more people will get off of their asses in 2016 and vote these ****ers out for ruining Indiana's reputation.

boycotts will do more harm than good, too. major employers and small businesses lobbied against this stupid bill, but they were ignored. they don't deserve to be boycotted, and people who don't even support this don't deserve to lose their jobs because of it.

what can you do that will help? write, email and call those ****ers at the statehouse until the ****ing phone lines melt. and don't stop when the media stops covering it. keep it up. eventually, they'll have to cave.
 
LDS provided significant funding as I recall.

They pretty much funded the entire measure....and the worst part about it is that they lied about it and engaged in all kind of deception to make it appear that they weren't behind it (because they would lose their non-profit/church tax status).
 
I'm conservative, and I wouldn't have voted for it.

I don't get from your posting history that you're especially old or even especially religious, which seem to be two of the three most compelling reasons to vote for something like prop 8. So simply being conservative wouldn't have been especially a lot all on its own. We have plenty of fiscal conservatives on this board who couldn't give a rat's ass about opposing ssm.

Old people - of course, no surprise. Guess what? When we're old, we probably won't be thinking in sync with what our grandkids think, either.

Of course. I'm still adapting to the fact that I can't say "retard." It appears each generation is cursed to be the next generation's bigots.

Religious people - the opposition from non-elderly to gay marriage seems to be coming from religious groups.

58% of the blacks in California voted to oppose SSM. That is statistical history.

Well, yeah, but when you consider that 82% of Republicans, 85% of conservatives, 84% of church-going, 65% of white protestants, 60% of all catholics, 81% of white evangelicals, and 61% of those 65 and over voted for it, the black vote loses statistical relevance really fast.

Religion is usually the motivator to opposing SSM and gay lifestyles. That's even what this thread is all about. Mike Pence was explicit that this has to do with religion.

And age (dying mindset) and conservatism, which figures into the whole idiotic culture war thing.
 
everyone i know around here is outraged, so don't be so quick to paint the whole state with a broad brush. stickers are going up everywhere making it clear that everyone is welcome. Pence is the worst governor Indiana has had in my lifetime. unfortunately a majority voted for these dip****s or didn't vote; i think turnout was like twenty five percent. hopefully, more people will get off of their asses in 2016 and vote these ****ers out for ruining Indiana's reputation.

boycotts will do more harm than good, too. major employers and small businesses lobbied against this stupid bill, but they were ignored. they don't deserve to be boycotted, and people who don't even support this don't deserve to lose their jobs because of it.

what can you do that will help? write, email and call those ****ers at the statehouse until the ****ing phone lines melt. and don't stop when the media stops covering it. keep it up. eventually, they'll have to cave.

Oh...I don't doubt that there are a lot of good people in Indiana. I don't mean to label everyone in Indiana as the bigots who passed this legislation. Hell....I was embarassed of my own State when Prop 8 passed. That aside....it reflects poors on the state just like prop 8 did California.
 
Very few "parade around" now. I can go months without seeing a single gay person parading around. What they do is live life openly, same as you do. Hold hands with their loved one, take them to dinner, to work functions, etc.

And why shouldn't they demand at least tolerance? They're human beings who deserve the benefit of the doubt same as you and me.

Funny you should mention that because I have never not tolerated them and not a single one I know or do business with act like some I've met online.

Obviously the politicians have it all wrong . 8)
 
That of course is the goal, to force Christians (mostly) out of the marketplace unless they conform to the homosexual agenda. This is what passes for tolerance these days. Conform or be harmed

That is just a crock of BS. How is serving a hamburger to a gay person "Conforming to the "homosexual agenda"? This is nothing more than a return to the pre-civil rights bigotry and discrimination. What's next - Christian only lunch counters and drinking fountains?
 
'We don't offer same sex marriage cakes. It's not a product offering in our product line.' ?

wedding-big-comb.jpg


Product lines are differentiated by differences in - well - the product. Above is one of the wedding cakes in the Masterpiece Cakes catalog.

1. What part of this cake identifies this as a "same sex marriage cake" in contrast to a "different sex marriage cake" as opposed to just a "wedding cake"?

2. What part of this cake is different when purchased by same-sex couples in contrast to different-sex couples:
A. Is it the recipe?
B. Is it the materials?
C. Is it the decoration (notice this cake does not employ toppers or text)?​




Or is the difference not in fact in the cake, the difference being the customers that purchase such a cake.



>>>>
 
'We don't offer same sex marriage cakes. It's not a product offering in our product line.' ?

For me, this is a a grey area. Gays must be allowed to order a generic wedding cake just like a birthday cake. Owner should not need to make it a same sex cake per se:

owner: Here is your generic wedding cake. No, I am not going to put a "two grooms" center piece on it. No, I am not going to write "Adam and Steve, united in marriage on it".
 
They didn't parade around telling the whole world and demanding acceptance. There's your sign.

Why do I get the feeling that you look down with disdain at the entire civil rights movement as well.....I can just imagine the disgust you felt with blacks parading around telling the whole world and demanding acceptance. Wow......bigotry is alive and well.
 
No, this is not accurate at all.

Have you ever noticed those signs stating: "We reserve the right to refuse service"? Those signs are affirming that the owner retains the right to refuse service for reasons not centered on a protected ground.

Those signs are meaningless. Putting up such a sign does not give a business the right to break the law.
 
View attachment 67182392


Product lines are differentiated by differences in - well - the product. Above is one of the wedding cakes in the Masterpiece Cakes catalog.

1. What part of this cake identifies this as a "same sex marriage cake" in contrast to a "different sex marriage cake" as opposed to just a "wedding cake"?

2. What part of this cake is different when purchased by same-sex couples in contrast to different-sex couples:
A. Is it the recipe?
B. Is it the materials?
C. Is it the decoration (notice this cake does not employ toppers or text)?​




Or is the difference not in fact in the cake, the difference being the customers that purchase such a cake.



>>>>

Shhhhh......they don't want to include that "special" ingredient that turns all the attendees at the wedding gay...
 
Yes, baking a cake for a homosexual is against your religion. I guess I missed that part in the bible. People like you are using your religion as a shield when you know it comes from your own personal bigotry. There is zero difference between this and hanging a "No Blacks Allowed" sign outside. Keep acting like Christ.

Ask a Black minister or any Black with a lick of sense if they think there's difference.
 
Those signs are meaningless. Putting up such a sign does not give a business the right to break the law.

It is not a law. You are confusing Sangha's views with "Law". The two dont always equate.

As I have stated, I have seen baggy pants wearing people ordered to leave and change clothes. The refusal of service was lawful. So would a refusal to serve me while wearing a Rebel Pride T-shirt.

Do an experiment: Enter a shopping mall as a legitimate shopper while wearing skin head / Waffen SS "wear". Then tell them that they cant lawfully refuse you entry. Let me know how it goes.... .
 
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Public accomodations must serve everybody. There are exceptions but they do not include "because I didn't want to"

Not so. New Jersey law made the Boy Scouts a public accommodation, and yet it was free to revoke scoutmaster Dale's membership because it did not want to accommodate homosexuals. Massachusetts law made the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Boston a public accommodation, and yet the parade's organizers were free to refuse to include an Irish-American homosexual group in the parade. In both cases, the homosexuals were excluded because the private persons in charge of the public accommodation didn't want them.

States cannot broaden the definition of "public accommodation" to include every imaginable organization or business, and then force those organizations and businesses to enter into contracts with everyone who wants to have dealings with them. The Christian owners of the Hitching Post, for example, did not want to let homosexuals use the wedding chapel they ran as a business--and they didn't have to.

The proponents of the homosexual agenda have taken an old common-law provision meant to keep travelers from freezing to death because innkeepers denied them lodgings, and tried to make it into a weapon to bully private persons in all sorts of commercial endeavors into contracting to provide homosexuals various goods and services against their will.
 
Those signs are meaningless. Putting up such a sign does not give a business the right to break the law.

You know who they're not meaningless to? The people making a fortune making and selling those things. They're everywhere.
 
It is not a law. You are confusing Sangha's views with "Law". The two dont always equate. As I have stated, I have seen baggy pants wearing people ordered to leave and change clothes. The refusal of service was lawful. So would a refusal to serve me while wearing a CSA uniform.

Do an experiment: Enter a shopping mall as a legitimate shopper while wearing Waffen SS "wear". Then tell them that they cant lawfully refuse you entry. Let me know how it goes.... .

In some types of businesses, dress codes are allowed. In others, it is not.
 
Why do I get the feeling that you look down with disdain at the entire civil rights movement as well.....I can just imagine the disgust you felt with blacks parading around telling the whole world and demanding acceptance. Wow......bigotry is alive and well.

Right....I disagree the Homosexual plight has anything to do with the civil rights movement. Guess I'm a bigot.

What of it?
 
everyone i know around here is outraged, so don't be so quick to paint the whole state with a broad brush. stickers are going up everywhere making it clear that everyone is welcome. Pence is the worst governor Indiana has had in my lifetime. unfortunately a majority voted for these dip****s or didn't vote; i think turnout was like twenty five percent. hopefully, more people will get off of their asses in 2016 and vote these ****ers out for ruining Indiana's reputation.

boycotts will do more harm than good, too. major employers and small businesses lobbied against this stupid bill, but they were ignored. they don't deserve to be boycotted, and people who don't even support this don't deserve to lose their jobs because of it.

what can you do that will help? write, email and call those ****ers at the statehouse until the ****ing phone lines melt. and don't stop when the media stops covering it. keep it up. eventually, they'll have to cave.

It's clear the business community did oppose this garbage, but unfortunately the reality when dealing with nutjob conservatives, every major boycott will have the effect of many thousands of phone calls. They show little evidence of giving the first damn about (especially outside) public opinion, but they will usually listen to their sugar daddies and business supporters.
 
That of course is the goal, to force Christians (mostly) out of the marketplace unless they conform to the homosexual agenda. This is what passes for tolerance these days. Conform or be harmed

What agenda is furthered by the selling of a cake? I don't build decks to further any agenda and could care less what people use them for.
 
Not so. New Jersey law made the Boy Scouts a public accommodation, and yet it was free to revoke scoutmaster Dale's membership because it did not want to accommodate homosexuals. Massachusetts law made the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Boston a public accommodation, and yet the parade's organizers were free to refuse to include an Irish-American homosexual group in the parade. In both cases, the homosexuals were excluded because the private persons in charge of the public accommodation didn't want them.

In that post, I explicitly mentioned that there are exceptions, and in another I noted it included exceptions for expressive organizations

Try to keep up.
 
Oh...I don't doubt that there are a lot of good people in Indiana. I don't mean to label everyone in Indiana as the bigots who passed this legislation. Hell....I was embarassed of my own State when Prop 8 passed. That aside....it reflects poors on the state just like prop 8 did California.

yeah, it really does. furthermore, they knew that it would. Pence has been bitching about the media coverage, even to the media themselves. however, i don't think any of them expected this to go viral like it has. their fallback position is that a bunch of other states including Illinois have done the same thing, and that the law doesn't change anything.

my response : then why in the **** did you pass it, asshole? answer : because it does exactly what everyone is afraid that it does, and you're mad that gay marriage is now legal in Indiana. that's why. also, a bunch of states had Jim Crow. that doesn't make the law ok. it wasn't right then, and it's still wrong, no matter how many states have versions of it. it's a slap in the face to gay people, and they've been slapped around too much already.
 
In some types of businesses, dress codes are allowed. In others, it is not.

No, all business can potentially have dress codes. Some may choose to enact dress codes, others not.

They core concept is that person wearing baggy pants, rebel pride shirt, Waffen SS stuff etc. is not a protected class. Thus they can be refused service.
 
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