Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

WCH said:

They shove their lifestyle in the faces of too many Americans and it's coming back to bite their butts. When they were simply an oddity that you knew existed but, it didn't affect your day-to-day then no one hardly noticed or cared. You come out and demand everyone accept you or get sued or thrown in jail and people take offence.

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LOL. I think you meant that as long as gays stayed in the closet hardly anyone noticed or cared. You're' kidding yourself if being an open gay person didn't come with simply devastating career and social costs back in the "good old days."

JANFU said:

They have the right not to enter into a business.

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So if my boss sent me to you because you're who he has an account with, you really think I have a right to go somewhere else and spend his money?

That's a very strange opinion you have their.

Henrin said:

1.)What happens when they fail to provide their service for a reason that is banned?
2.) Can they perhaps be sued for that? When they lose the lawsuit do they have a choice to pay or are they forced to pay?

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1.) a reason that is banned? youll have to be more specific.
what happens when they dont provide service for a reason that is not banned . . . oh wait . . how would that be possible since the claim is, there is force to do business with guys, they cant be any non-banned reasons right??? OOOOOPS lol
2.) see one once you are more specific i can answer seems you are asking what happens when sombody breaks the law . . .the same things that mostly happens for other broken laws of the same magnitude.

that has nothing to do with the false and mentally retard "claims" that service is forced, acceptance is forced, business is forced and or association is forced
none of those things are forced
facts win again

AGENT J said:

lets recap the facts

there are no laws forcing or compelling anybody to do business with gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc

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Except that you can't say 'no' to serving them.

AGENT J said:

there is no right to service
there is no force to accept gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
there is no force to serve gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc

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Except that you can't say 'no' and not serve them.

Your facts, as you recite them, conflict your other argument.

If you can't decline to serve them, then you are forced to serve them.

We see this in the case of the Christian bakers. They declined to serve the couple, and were promptly forced to either say yes, ro go out of business at the business end of the government gun.

eohrnberger said:

1.)If you can't say 'no', and your only answer is 'yes', then you are forced to say 'yes' for the same reasons that you can't say 'no'.
2.)Your continued belittlement of the logical fact as stated above belies the weakness of your argument.

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1.) you can say no, this is why your claim fails and has been proven factually wrong
2.) what entitlement LMAO if you feel belittled for being proven wrong with facts and posting inaccurate false claims, dont do it
i however will continue to point out that they are false and i can do so using facts, remind us again what you have on your side?

fact remains you can say no and there is no force to say yes

eohrnberger said:

1.)Except that you can't say 'no' to serving them.
2.)Except that you can't say 'no' and not serve them.
3.)Your facts, as you recite them, conflict your other argument.
4.)If you can't decline to serve them, then you are forced to serve them.

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1.) false its done every day a d you can say no
2.) see #1
3.) now they simply prove your claims wrong
4.) you can decline and you wont be forced
facts win again

let me know if you want me to prove it too you further with examples

JasperL said:

LOL. I think you meant that as long as gays stayed in the closet hardly anyone noticed or cared. You're' kidding yourself if being an open gay person didn't come with simply devastating career and social costs back in the "good old days."

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They didn't parade around telling the whole world and demanding acceptance. There's your sign.

AGENT J said:

1.) you can say no, this is why your claim fails and has been proven factually wrong

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Sure. And promptly be forced out of business for it. Not much of a choice is it? You could even say it's lack of a choice.

AGENT J said:

2.) what entitlement LMAO if you feel belittled for being proven wrong with facts and posting inaccurate false claims, dont do it
i however will continue to point out that they are false and i can do so using facts, remind us again what you have on your side?

fact remains you can say no and there is no force to say yes

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Is it too simple for you? If you can't say 'no', then your only answer is 'yes', and so you have no choice.

AGENT J said:

1.) false its done every day a d you can say no
2.) see #1
3.) now they simply prove your claims wrong
4.) you can decline and you wont be forced
facts win again

let me know if you want me to prove it too you further with examples

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Why would minorities desire to impose their will on businesses if they didn't get anything from it?

WCH said:

They didn't parade around telling the whole world and demanding acceptance. There's your sign.

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What annoys me about the movement is that they don't just demand acceptance, but demand that you agree with them on the issues. That annoys me.

AGENT J said:

but there is no law that forces business with gays . . none . . .zero . . zilch . . if you disagree simply post the law, proverb it . . your will fail

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What do you think the purpose of a law is?

beefheart said:

This is america, we don't allow discrimination. You want to live in a theocracy, there are plenty of miserable places you can move to.

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Based upon the comments you are responding to "theocracy" is a red herring. One does not have to have a religious reason to discriminate. An atheist can be just as much a homophobe, or racist, or whatever as a supposed Christian. Additionally, by what Belmonds, myself and others are calling for, even Christians could be and would be discriminated against.

eohrnberger said:

1.)Sure. And promptly be forced out of business for it.
2.)Not much of a choice is it?
3.) You could even say it's lack of a choice.
4.)Is it too simple for you? If you can't say 'no', then your only answer is 'yes', and so you have no choice.

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1.) you wouldnt have broken any laws for refusing business so why would somebody force you out of business
2.) what you are describing isnt reality or happening
3.) i would agree IF that was happening but its not, you are free to say no with nothing happening
4.) i agree 100% it is a very simply concept thats why its confusing you cant grasp it. you can say no so your point is meaningless
facts win again

Henrin said:

Why would minorities desire to impose their will on businesses if they didn't get anything from it?

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Youll have to ask the people you speak of, i don't know anybody like that or any situation like that

Taylor said:

What do you think the purpose of a law is?

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so im guessing you have no proof? thats what i though LOL
what law? the one you speak of doesnt exist, youd have to tell me

CanadaJohn said:

I have to disagree with you here.

Do you also believe that private businesses should be allowed to exercise similar employment discrimination? It's the obvious extension/conclusion.

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Yes

Likewise, do you believe that a city or municipality should be able to discriminate about who can operate a private business? How far down the slope do you want to slide?

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Exactly there is the limit. The privilege/right belongs only to private entities. Government agencies and those employees on the clock are the only ones that should be forbidden to discriminate.

Henrin said:

What annoys me about the movement is that they don't just demand acceptance, but demand that you agree with them on the issues. That annoys me.

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I love that you are annyed by two inventions of your imagination

Thorgasm said:

Jesus wouldn't refuse service to sinners.

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Which only proves the point that those who do so in Jesus' name really aren't Christians, but CINO's

These threads are always so happy.:roll:

Why does anyone care about what other people's bedroom preferences are? And why does anyone share or think anyone should know what his/her bedroom preferences are? Why would a baker care who a customer is attracted to? Why does someone think his baker needs to know who he's attracted to?

Carry on.

Hate is a great powerful tool. It unifies the GOP base. The GOP base hates gays more then they are willing to vote for their own interests. And that's exactly how the anti-gay Republican politicians like it.

tres borrachos said:

These threads are always so happy.:roll:

Why does anyone care about what other people's bedroom preferences are? And why does anyone share or think anyone should know what his/her bedroom preferences are? Why would a baker care who a customer is attracted to? Why does someone think his baker needs to know who he's attracted to?

Carry on.

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Good question, and it goes both ways.

Why do we care what the owner of chick-filet’s opinion is? Does the chicken taste different because of it?

People are free to discriminate against chick-filet. I don’t get why they would, but I am not going to force them to stop.

CanadaJohn said:

False again. That is not the government discriminating, that is the business owner discriminating - the government basically says treat all customers equally - whatever you offer for sale to one customer, you must offer for sale to another customer.

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Actually what they are saying is that if a customer wants to refuse a business transaction based upon the business owner's race, gender, creed, sexuality, etc then they may do so, but the business owner cannot do the same in return. Sounds like you favor discrimination in one direction but not the other.

AGENT J said:

lets recap the facts

there are no laws forcing or compelling anybody to do business with gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
there is no right to service
there is no force to accept gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
there is no force to serve gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc

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example.

I make widgets and I make the best dam widgets money can buy. Thornton Melon is one of my financers!

I make the big, small, fat and skinny. I make them in any color and out of many materials.

Business is great and its boomng

A person (pick thier gender, race, sexual orientation and religion) walks in and they want 200K widgets by april 5th.
lets go with Black, female, muslim, lesbian, republican who works at an abortion clinic
I deny her business because Im booked and cant possible make her deadline, my stock is tight as it is and she'll have to get her widgets from somewhere else
perfectly legal and i wasn't forced to do business with her in any way because she was gay or anything else and I said NO because ther is no force

another person (pick thier gender, race, sexual orientation and religion) walks in and wants 500 widgets by april 4th
lets go with white, male, Christian, conservative, who is a KKK member and he told me he wants the widgets to set on fire in the shape of "no -n-words welcome" at his next rally. I refuse because i am again busy and i would never sell my widgets to be used for firewood.
perfectly legal and i wasn't forced to do business with her in any way because he was christian or anything else and i said NO because there is no force

Facts win again

there are no laws forcing or compelling anybody to do business with gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
there is no right to service
there is no force to accept gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
there is no force to serve gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc

ARealConservative said:

Good question, and it goes both ways.

Why do we care what the owner of chick-filet’s opinion is? Does the chicken taste different because of it?

People are free to discriminate against chick-filet. I don’t get why they would, but I am not going to force them to stop.

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Yes that was sort of my point. I don't want to know who someone else loves. I don't want to know that someone else doesn't approve of who I love. I don't want to know I think everyone should keep this **** to themselves. I don't care what a business owner thinks of John & Jim if I'm going to him to bake me a cake. I only care that he's clean, his ingredients are fresh, and he washed his hands before he made my cake. I don't think John & Jim should care about what the baker thinks of them. I don't think the baker should think of them and what they do in their private time. This isn't the ****ing middle ages where adults made decisions on who married who.

How the hell this has become such a rabidly angry issue on both sides is beyond me. I don't care who loves who any more than I cared about who approved of my choice of husband or didn't approve, as the case may be.

tres borrachos said:

These threads are always so happy.:roll:

Why does anyone care about what other people's bedroom preferences are? And why does anyone share or think anyone should know what his/her bedroom preferences are? Why would a baker care who a customer is attracted to? Why does someone think his baker needs to know who he's attracted to?

Carry on.

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This thread isn't about bedroom practices, but business practices. Please stay on topic.