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Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

I have to disagree with you here.

Do you also believe that private businesses should be allowed to exercise similar employment discrimination? It's the obvious extension/conclusion.
Yes indeed.

Likewise, do you believe that a city or municipality should be able to discriminate about who can operate a private business? How far down the slope do you want to slide?
That's what cities and municipalities are doing now. They're telling people that if they don't operate their business in the way the city demands, even when doing so violates their consciences, they can't operate the business. Indiana and Mike Pence are avoiding that error
 
I have to disagree with you here.

Do you also believe that private businesses should be allowed to exercise similar employment discrimination?

That is a voluntary association, is it not?

Likewise, do you believe that a city or municipality should be able to discriminate about who can operate a private business? How far down the slope do you want to slide?

No, as all men are created equal and government's role and responsibility is to treat us all equally and protect our rights against aggression. As such. no unit of government should ever be allowed to discriminate.

A business is not like the government; it is ultimately the property of an individual and that individual has freedom of association and freedom of contract. He or she should never be compelled to give custom to anyone; it is good business sense to make voluntary exchange for profit with the largest number of folks possible, so the incentive is already there to not discriminate.
 
Should hospitals refuse to treat gay people?

Healthcare is a service. A privately owned hospital is absolutely a business.

There are public hospitals.
 
Should hospitals refuse to treat gay people?
Let's keep the context. The topic is about whether business SHOULD do something. It's about whether they should be allowed to do it
 
Let's keep the context. The topic is about whether business SHOULD do something. It's about whether they should be allowed to do it

Good point.

The answer to his question is "No, they shouldn't."

But that doesn't mean I want to force compulsion with my values by law. You shouldn't smoke either, but hey, your lungs, your business.
 
Yes indeed.

That's what cities and municipalities are doing now. They're telling people that if they don't operate their business in the way the city demands, even when doing so violates their consciences, they can't operate the business. Indiana and Mike Pence are avoiding that error

Well, I'm afraid you're going to be sadly disappointed - that ship has sailed.

As for the municipality discriminating, my point was not basic regulatory conditions to open and run a business but the municipality being able to say "you're a Christian, no store license for you" or "you're gay, no store license for you". Or simply having a city clerk say, "gee, there's something about you I don't like so no store license for you".
 
Healthcare is a service. A privately owned hospital is absolutely a business.

There are public hospitals.

This is where your ideology is so out of touch with reality.
 
Well, I'm afraid you're going to be sadly disappointed - that ship has sailed.

As for the municipality discriminating, my point was not basic regulatory conditions to open and run a business but the municipality being able to say "you're a Christian, no store license for you" or "you're gay, no store license for you". Or simply having a city clerk say, "gee, there's something about you I don't like so no store license for you".
That is exactly what is happening in America. If you want to run your business according to your Christian beliefs, you can literally be forced out of business. That form of discrimination is celebrated by liberals all across America
 
Let's keep the context. The topic is about whether business SHOULD do something. It's about whether they should be allowed to do it

In a civilized society, they should not be allowed to do it. This is what prevents systemic oppression of people by people hijacking a religion for their own personal bigoted agendas.

Jesus wouldn't refuse service to sinners.
 
In a civilized society, they should not be allowed to do it. This is what prevents systemic oppression of people by people hijacking a religion for their own personal bigoted agendas.

Jesus wouldn't refuse service to sinners.
Jesus wouldn't facilitate their sin though
 
That is exactly what is happening in America. If you want to run your business according to your Christian beliefs, you can literally be forced out of business. That form of discrimination is celebrated by liberals all across America

B.S.

Those aren't Christian beliefs. Jesus didn't turn sinners away.
 
That is a voluntary association, is it not?



No, as all men are created equal and government's role and responsibility is to treat us all equally and protect our rights against aggression. As such. no unit of government should ever be allowed to discriminate.

A business is not like the government; it is ultimately the property of an individual and that individual has freedom of association and freedom of contract. He or she should never be compelled to give custom to anyone; it is good business sense to make voluntary exchange for profit with the largest number of folks possible, so the incentive is already there to not discriminate.

Well, since government is the people in a community and they through their representatives determine the laws and regulations that govern that community, why do you favour a collectively enacted law that allows a private business to discriminate and yet oppose the community collectively, through their representatives, enacting a law to discriminate against a business? Do you feel that businesses have a higher level of rights and equality than a single person?
 
apparently, he just signed it. Pence is a horrible governor, and this is a national embarrassment. one major convention has already indicated that it will move, and Indiana could potentially lose sporting events. major employers were against it, too. it's going to eventually get tossed out, but not before the economic damage has been done.

most businesses aren't going to start denying services to gay people, because that would be a ****ing stupid business decision. this is just for a few people who don't want to hand out birth control pills, and a few others who don't like homosexuals. it's an utterly useless and hurtful law. i hope this causes Hoosiers to wake the **** up and take a close look at who they're voting for.
 
That is exactly what is happening in America. If you want to run your business according to your Christian beliefs, you can literally be forced out of business. That form of discrimination is celebrated by liberals all across America

That is false. There is no community that discriminates based on religious beliefs. The rules and regulations for opening a business and getting a license to do so are the same for all who wish to do so.
 
B.S.

Those aren't Christian beliefs. Jesus didn't turn sinners away.
And as I said, he didn't facilitate their sin either. Moreover, He said he came to them because they were in need of being healed.
 
Well, since government is the people in a community

Ehhhh.... they are the elected representatives of the people - not the people.

why do you favour a collectively enacted law that allows a private business to discriminate

I shouldn't think you need a law at all, but rather should repeal any current law that says otherwise, though the situation is going to differ from location to location.

and yet oppose the community collectively, through their representatives, enacting a law to discriminate against a business?

I oppose the government violating an individual's property rights by dictating whom they must give custom to.

That is the opposite of what a government is supposed to do; a government is supposed to protect our natural human right to property.

Do you feel that businesses have a higher level of rights and equality than a single person?

A single person should not have to give custom to anyone, should not have to exchange goods or services or property with anyone. Should he choose to do so in voluntary exchange with another, that is their business.
 
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That's why he stopped Judas from betraying him, right?



That's why he served them all holy communion the night before they would all betray him, especially Peter and Judas....


Morality and the Bible are not a natural mix, puritanical interpretations did not arise until the middle ages when law and order broke down after the fall of the Roman empire....

The American Christian right is one of the last stubborn bastions against enlightenment....the man hung out with lepers and fed them, does anyone really think He would shun homosexuals?
 
Now if we could just put them on a boat with Tom Hanks.
 
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