Page 92 of 320 FirstFirst ... 42829091929394102142192 ... LastLast
Results 911 to 920 of 3196

Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #911
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    33,025

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Please provide such a claim by link. Governor Pence would not of signed such a bill if it included such stipulations. Please produce......
    sexual orientation isn't covered by Indiana's state anti-discrimination laws.

    Should LGBT Hoosiers Be Protected From Discrimination? | News - Indiana Public Media

  2. #912
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    12-23-16 @ 11:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    576

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LOL, he was hounded into resigning because he supported (contributed money in support of) a constitutional amendment to deny the benefits of marriage to homosexuals and effectively impose his view of "marriage" onto the entire state, permanently, while heading an organization full of those whose rights he was gleefully attempting to permanently limit.
    You mean he was persecuted for his beliefs. Thank you for confirming my point; mere criticism or discrimination is not sufficient to claim persecution. "Persecution only occurs when someone repeatedly harasses or punishes another in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; to make someone suffer because of their belief. You know, like a founder of Mozilla "getting whacked (hounded into resigning) by the gay mafia" (Bill Mahr) .".


    And there is a world of difference between a personal view of marriage - don't like gay marriage, don't get gay married! - and contributing money to an effort that would impose his personal view on everyone else. It's the difference between being personally against keeping guns at home, and supporting a law that would ban guns.
    A "world of difference" for whom, compared to what? We all have personal and privately held views (that is as true of the people of Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union as it is here) but no one would suggest that their dissidents should have been persecuted merely because they wanted to "impose" their view of a free society on others.

    So perhaps what you actually mean is that 'it is different' because anyone who is not willing to extend the "right" of marriage to same sex couples is supporting the continued denial of a liberty right to a group; and anyone who says or does anything to politically support and deny a liberty should be persecuted and driven from their jobs? Really?

    If so, then in your "moral" and "tolerant" world more than half the voters who supported and actually voted for Proposition 8 should also be targets of persecution, and hounded from employment...correct? Just as anyone who supports anything less than pro-choice should be persecuted and hounded from their employment, yes? And for some let us not forget the Communists and the Jews, they too need to be persecuted and driven from employment, (Oh wait, we have been here before, have we not?).

    Would a gun maker in Texas support a CEO who contributed money to a constitutional amendment to ban guns? Of course not. Would that gun maker support a CEO who made a personal decision to not own guns or keep them in his home? Why not, especially if that person didn't publicly advertise his personal choice.
    You offer us a too obvious nonsensical analogy because...? The actual question is "would a software maker in California employ a founder and CEO who privately donated money to a Constitutional amendment that has NOTHING to do with their software products (banned or otherwise)? Unless you think that Mozilla's real business purpose is to politically advance gay marriage rights, your analogy is more than daft - its bizarre. (And, by the way, 'that hounded person' in Mozilla did not 'publicly advertise' his personal view. It was private until the self-appointed 'gay brownshirts' researched, targeted, publicized, and then persecuted a private person.

    A reminder - we have been here before. Salem, the Hollywood 10, Red Channels, and black lists (employment persecution) are very familiar theme to those of us who have learned from history. And to those who remain historically benighted, and would enjoy a rebirth of such persecution, I can think of nothing more appropriate than to suggest they (you) read about another who held similar views: Senator Joseph McCarthy.

    And when they are hunting for todays "communists" (traditional marriage supporters) before these folk find a private citizen who has "sinned", expose and publicly denounce their prior affiliation, and then destroy them I hope someone whispers in their the words of Joseph Welch:

    "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

    Will they? I think not.
    Last edited by maxparrish; 03-27-15 at 08:23 PM.

  3. #913
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    01-01-17 @ 08:08 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,245

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I don't view attempts by government to infringe a person's freedom of speech .
    Do you have freedom of speech when you are on your employer's time? The time your employer paid for.

  4. #914
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    45,133
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    The untold millions Indiana has already lost due to corporations pulling their conventions is not faux. I gave Pence much more credit than this and respected him a great deal. He'll get it when he starts losing huge sports events--didn't learn much from Arizona did he ?
    They're not going to lose anything because this law is replicated in many states, and follows the federal statute.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #915
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    45,133
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It depends, doesn't it? If your "conscience" tells you Jews are the devil and you want to run them out of town, and so you will refuse them service and otherwise make them unwelcome, I don't think laws that allow that are particularly "laudable." And they're clearly not always constitutionally 'mandated' - that also depends on what your conscience is telling you and who acts based on that affect....
    The behavior you describe would be unlawful under both Indiana and federal statutes.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #916
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    45,133
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I wasn't getting into an argument on the right of people to contribute to prop 8, I was pointing out the significant influence of religion on the proposition, which I feel at this point is a sufficiently beaten and deceased equine.
    OK. That point was never disputed.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  7. #917
    Sage
    vesper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11,165

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    sexual orientation isn't covered by Indiana's state anti-discrimination laws.

    Should LGBT Hoosiers Be Protected From Discrimination? | News - Indiana Public Media
    this particular bill was to protect religious freedoms much like 30 state governors have signed into law after the fiasco over cake decorators, florists and photographers were ripped in federal courts mainly due to the lack of protection at the state level. . Are you against religious freedoms? I read it and it had nothing in it that discriminated against anyone.. So what's the beef?

  8. #918
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    45,133
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    sexual orientation isn't covered by Indiana's state anti-discrimination laws.

    Should LGBT Hoosiers Be Protected From Discrimination? | News - Indiana Public Media

    From your link and this is the point. There is not a single case in any state with RFRA of discrimination against any LGBT person being upheld.

    "Speaker Brian Bosma, R-Indianapolis, says courts will take care of any discrimination concerns RFRA’s opponents might have:
    “I think you can look nationally and not find a circumstance where a state that has a RFRA standard and the federal law have upheld a discriminatory action against an LGBT group,” Bosma says."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  9. #919
    The Unrepentant RINO**DINO
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    23,900

    Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    That's too bad. Nobody should have the right to demand someone else's labor. That isn't a free society.
    And what about the person denied access to society simply because someone doesn't like who they are and not because of their character?

    What sort of free society do they live in knowing that they stand an incredible likelihood being denied access to the basic structures that you people associate with freedom and liberty?

    Libertarians understand only a small portion of what freedom actually means. Their obliviousness to culture only ensures that minorities (race, religion, gender, age, disability, sexual orientation) who are not liked by culture will be second class citizens at best.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 03-27-15 at 08:37 PM.
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

  10. #920
    Temp Suspended
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,270

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The design of the house can be seen as an expression of his aesthetic, so he could refuse to design such a house because it is not his aesthetic.

    Design style is the architects "stock in trade" and it is within their rights to refuse to design a house that is not consistent with their own aesthetic.
    I see. Architects are engaging in expressive speech through their work, but photographers are not. When they are forced by law to celebrate an event they disapprove of, government is not unconstitutionally compelling them to engage in certain speech against their will.

    Say there is a group of openly homosexual men who have a fetish for things associated with Nazism. They want to have a party, with a swastika-bedizened cake and everyone dressed in SS caps, uniforms--or at least parts of uniforms--and boots. Just to add to the fun, they want to hire Cohen, an observant Jew who is a photographer in town, to take photographs to commemorate the event. They tell him they are homosexuals and want the photos to show them in embraces and in other erotically suggestive poses. This man does the usual wedding and bar mitzvah photographs, but he also has had a number of his photos of human figures exhibited in galleries. Although Cohen does not have as low an opinion of homosexuals as of Nazis, he considers homosexuality immoral and wants no part of celebrating it in pictures. But since photographs are not a form of aesthetic expression like architecture, and because under the state law photography studios qualify as public accommodations, he cannot refuse this job. Is that what you would say?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •