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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The law does not carve out a permission slip for discrimination. That is political spin.
    What would you call denying service to someone based on sexual orientation except discrimination?

    And the justification for discriminating is in fact religion, if it falls under the RFRA.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm a little bit lost - many state laws don't in fact protect sexual orientation and it's not covered by the CRA. Also, the law Pence signed carves out a "religious" permission slip to discriminate based on sexual orientation, which is why we're discussing this topic this week.

    And as I said, I don't consider the comparison "shameful" because I'm pretty aware of the discrimination gays faced in this country for most of its history. It's different, but was incredibly damaging to those affected.
    We are talking about individual moral codes. All people have certain inalienable rights. How you have sex isn't one of them but freedom of religion and the right to moral conscience is.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    At the federal level it's a Democrat measure sponsored by Democrat legislators and signed by a Democrat President. Similar laws have been passed by many states at the recommendation of the Supreme Court. Your faux outrage is purely a political pose.

    this will be my last response to you, Jack, because i don't care about your opinion concerning any topic, to tell you the truth.

    i don't support this **** at any level or from any party. this **** directly affects me because i live here. my state has been made into a joke, and i'm angry about it. they've passed a bill that allows businesses to kick out gay customers, which is just flat out ****ing stupid, as well as mean spirited. we don't do that in a modern first world country. a lot of people i know are really upset about it, and so am i. also, there is a boycott being organized, and we almost lost a fifty million dollar convention because of it. Indianapolis is scrambling to distance itself from the stupid ****ers in the statehouse. it was clear from the get go that this was going to be a mess if they passed it, but they did it anyway. this bill was passed as revenge for the recent legalization of gay marriage in Indiana.

    the last thing that this state needs is a ****ing boycott. it's hard enough to make a living here already. those who want to boycott should be burning up the statehouse phone lines instead. eventually, the black eye will be enough to get the law repealed, but by then, the damage will be done.

    you can get in the last response of our exchange. goodbye.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's disengenuous. The intent wasn't to give private businesses a cover to discriminate against LGBT. I can't imagine anyone at the time contemplating that a business open to the public and providing service to gays posed a substantial burden on an INDIVIDUAL's free exercise of religion.
    Not at all disingenuous. The law is the law, and its authors are responsible and accountable.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What would you call denying service to someone based on sexual orientation except discrimination?

    And the justification for discriminating is in fact religion, if it falls under the RFRA.
    Let's just see how it plays out. The law protects individuals from being compelled to perform acts contrary to their consciences. Seems laudable to me -- and constitutionally mandated, btw.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    $180,000 in a statewide vote in California is inconsequential decimal dust.
    You stopped reading too early.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The point about black voters for Prop 8 is not that they were demographically different from others who voted as they did, but that only on this issue did they vote with old, white, conservative church-goers.
    True. While it's certainly not a positive thing in this case, it certainly does refute the idea that blacks vote like the Borg on liberal issues.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    In order to be tolerant, you have to be tolerant of people who hold a different perspective than you. Intolerance toward people you consider intolerant is indeed intolerance itself
    Good to know, so those who oppose the KKK and other racist dirtbags are intolerant of intolerance and so intolerant, i.e. "bigots," and now the word has lost all meaning in common discourse. Hey, MLK was a bigot, same as George Wallace. The civil rights workers killed in Alabama were a bunch of bigots, same as the people who murdered them....

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    How so? There is nothing in it that is discriminating. It only re-instates what the federal government made claim to a couple of decades ago.

    After Obamacare and their major college Notre Dame having countless law proceedings against the federal government that was forcing them to support certain things that was in violation of their faith. Like a lot of other states, they had everything from shelters, food banks, and other programs caring for shutins etc. closing down because they could not justify compromising their faith. The biggest losers were the communities that depend on the charities.

    Then the attacks on people of faith who could not in moral conscience participate in a marriage they see as a sin.

    Pence was either the 30th governor or the 31st that has done the same thing to shore up protection for the rights of the religious which have no particular political base.

    I'm sure at this moment there are more on their knees thanking God for Pence then there are those who appose him.
    Pence is a piece of ****. if someone doesn't understand or refuses to understand why kicking gay people out for being gay is a bad thing, i doubt that i can help.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    this will be my last response to you, Jack, because i don't care about your opinion concerning any topic, to tell you the truth.

    i don't support this **** at any level or from any party. this **** directly affects me because i live here. my state has been made into a joke, and i'm angry about it. they've passed a bill that allows businesses to kick out gay customers, which is just flat out ****ing stupid, as well as mean spirited. we don't do that in a modern first world country. a lot of people i know are really upset about it, and so am i. also, there is a boycott being organized, and we almost lost a fifty million dollar convention because of it. Indianapolis is scrambling to distance itself from the stupid ****ers in the statehouse. it was clear from the get go that this was going to be a mess if they passed it, but they did it anyway. this bill was passed as revenge for the recent legalization of gay marriage in Indiana.

    the last thing that this state needs is a ****ing boycott. it's hard enough to make a living here already. those who want to boycott should be burning up the statehouse phone lines instead. eventually, the black eye will be enough to get the law repealed, but by then, the damage will be done.

    you can get in the last response of our exchange. goodbye.
    I know how much you dislike getting thoroughly schooled in debate, so I'm not surprised you're running away. I'm a native Hoosier myself, and quite proud of my native state. (I'm a firm supporter of SSM, btw.) This bill is like many others in many other states, not to mention the federal law. The only outrage is the faux kind generated by political poseurs. I'll be in Indiana over Labor Day weekend for a graduate school reunion, and I look forward to spending a little extra to help the state's economy.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    You stopped reading too early.



    True. While it's certainly not a positive thing in this case, it certainly does refute the idea that blacks vote like the Borg on liberal issues.
    Individuals are free to donate as they wish, regardless of their religion.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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