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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Not necessarily. Again you are engaging in circular reasoning. Your argument is that in order to be "tolerant" you have to be willing to be tolerant of people who are intolerant.

    That is just a silly proposition. In many cases tolerance requires speaking out against those who reach intolerance.
    In order to be tolerant, you have to be tolerant of people who hold a different perspective than you. Intolerance toward people you consider intolerant is indeed intolerance itself

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    everyone i know around here is outraged, so don't be so quick to paint the whole state with a broad brush. stickers are going up everywhere making it clear that everyone is welcome. Pence is the worst governor Indiana has had in my lifetime. unfortunately a majority voted for these dip****s or didn't vote; i think turnout was like twenty five percent. hopefully, more people will get off of their asses in 2016 and vote these ****ers out for ruining Indiana's reputation.

    boycotts will do more harm than good, too. major employers and small businesses lobbied against this stupid bill, but they were ignored. they don't deserve to be boycotted, and people who don't even support this don't deserve to lose their jobs because of it.

    what can you do that will help? write, email and call those ****ers at the statehouse until the ****ing phone lines melt. and don't stop when the media stops covering it. keep it up. eventually, they'll have to cave.
    2012 Indiana gubernatorial election [11]
    Party Candidate Votes % %
    Republican Mike Pence / Sue Ellspermann 1,264,877 49.67% -8.35%
    Democratic John R. Gregg / Vi Simpson 1,183,213 46.46% +6.52%
    Libertarian Rupert Boneham / Brad Klopfenstein 101,868 3.95% +1.83%
    Write-in Donnie Harold Harris / George Fish 21 0%
    Margin of victory 81,664 3.20% -14.61%
    Turnout 2,549,152 57.81% -2.08%
    Republican hold Swing
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    They pretty much funded the entire measure....and the worst part about it is that they lied about it and engaged in all kind of deception to make it appear that they weren't behind it (because they would lose their non-profit/church tax status).
    According to Cardinal they spent $180,000. That's nothing in a state like California. You guys need to get your stories straight.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The Indiana RFRA is patterned after the federal RFRA of 1993, originally put forward by (then) Representative Chuck Schumer of New York. Many states have similar laws. And you are wrong about turnout in Pence's election.
    Very true sponsored by Chucky Schumer and signed into law by Bill Clinton. And yes, I think Indiana is the 30th or 31st state to shore up their laws to protect religious freedoms.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The Indiana RFRA is patterned after the federal RFRA of 1993, originally put forward by (then) Representative Chuck Schumer of New York. Many states have similar laws. And you are wrong about turnout in Pence's election.
    many states had Jim Crow laws, too. and the same folks supported them.

    i was wrong about 2012. it looks like 56% turned out, but not all of them voted for Mike Pence. this law is an absolute embarrassment for the state.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    many states had Jim Crow laws, too. and the same folks supported them.

    i was wrong about 2012. it looks like 56% turned out, but not all of them voted for Mike Pence. this law is an absolute embarrassment for the state.
    At the federal level it's a Democrat measure sponsored by Democrat legislators and signed by a Democrat President. Similar laws have been passed by many states at the recommendation of the Supreme Court. Your faux outrage is purely a political pose.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    We have laws in place that do not tolerate discrimination over sexual orientation. If someone finds they are being discriminated against they have the right to pursue it in the courts. Did blacks have that right when they were looking for equality? NO But it doesn't stop some from trying to use what a race of people truly suffered for a century to use their suffering as equal to them when it is shameful to even make the comparison.
    I'm a little bit lost - many state laws don't in fact protect sexual orientation and it's not covered by the CRA. Also, the law Pence signed carves out a "religious" permission slip to discriminate based on sexual orientation, which is why we're discussing this topic this week.

    And as I said, I don't consider the comparison "shameful" because I'm pretty aware of the discrimination gays faced in this country for most of its history. It's different, but was incredibly damaging to those affected.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm a little bit lost - many state laws don't in fact protect sexual orientation and it's not covered by the CRA. Also, the law Pence signed carves out a "religious" permission slip to discriminate based on sexual orientation, which is why we're discussing this topic this week.

    And as I said, I don't consider the comparison "shameful" because I'm pretty aware of the discrimination gays faced in this country for most of its history. It's different, but was incredibly damaging to those affected.
    The law does not carve out a permission slip for discrimination. That is political spin.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    many states had Jim Crow laws, too. and the same folks supported them.

    i was wrong about 2012. it looks like 56% turned out, but not all of them voted for Mike Pence. this law is an absolute embarrassment for the state.
    How so? There is nothing in it that is discriminating. It only re-instates what the federal government made claim to a couple of decades ago.

    After Obamacare and their major college Notre Dame having countless law proceedings against the federal government that was forcing them to support certain things that was in violation of their faith. Like a lot of other states, they had everything from shelters, food banks, and other programs caring for shutins etc. closing down because they could not justify compromising their faith. The biggest losers were the communities that depend on the charities.

    Then the attacks on people of faith who could not in moral conscience participate in a marriage they see as a sin.

    Pence was either the 30th governor or the 31st that has done the same thing to shore up protection for the rights of the religious which have no particular political base.

    I'm sure at this moment there are more on their knees thanking God for Pence then there are those who appose him.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    At the federal level it's a Democrat measure sponsored by Democrat legislators and signed by a Democrat President. Similar laws have been passed by many states at the recommendation of the Supreme Court. Your faux outrage is purely a political pose.
    That's disengenuous. The intent wasn't to give private businesses a cover to discriminate against LGBT. I can't imagine anyone at the time contemplating that a business open to the public and providing service to gays posed a substantial burden on an INDIVIDUAL's free exercise of religion.

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