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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    I read about this yesterday. Governor Pence I believe is the 31st governor to sign this type of legislation. It is basically the same legislation that Bill Clinton signed as Religious Freedom Act. What brought Indiana to this point had much to do with Obamacare and the legislation that forced religious organizations to provide services against their faith. Notre Dame was engaged in several lawsuits against the government over that issue. Then the several lawsuits against business owners being forced to provide services in regard to a marriage they find to be a sin. So states have been shoring up their laws to protect those of all faiths being forced to go against their moral conscience.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I agree..it's too subjective.
    No, not really. Let's have a multiple choice question:

    Which one is the bigot?

    A. An employer who fired a worker after he brought his gay partner to the annual Christmas party.
    B. The CFO who quit in protest over the firing of his colleague.

    Until sometime this century, everyone on planet earth would answer A. Not a single person would label those in category B as "bigots."

    Now in an Orwellian exercise, you've redefined the word to include both groups. It's astounding really.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I consider anyone who was an adult during the fifties "old," since they grew up in a time I can't relate to, except in purely abstract terms.
    So basically you're talking about dead people. :lol

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I consider anyone who was an adult during the fifties "old," since they grew up in a time I can't relate to except in purely abstract terms.



    82% of Republicans vs 36% of Democrats voted for prop 8. 85% of conservatives vs. 22% of liberals voted for prop 8. Opposition to ssm remains, for now, a Republican/conservative thing. Of course, these numbers are from 2008, so if the vote were held again today the Republican/conservative percentages would almost certainly be less extreme.

    Edit: Yup, the percentages would be different. Opposition to ssm which almost certainly came mostly from conservatives, has dropped from 40% to 24%.

    Civil Rights
    I wasn't an adult in the fifties. I wasn't even born yet.

    Most "conservatives" who are religious oppose SSM. So does the "older" generation. Most conservatives who are conservative but not having anything to do with religion feel as I do - who cares who loves and marries who?

    But none of that is relevant when someone is trying to make the case that the "Republican base hates gays".
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    links? proof? facts? let me know when you have them
    you really should pay attention to context and the actually discussion instead of your obsession with me always trying to get your first chck in the win column.

    would you like my proof to get further destroyed?

    i make widgets, you are a gay man, you walk in my store and want 500 widgets by 5:00, what law forces me to serve you cause you are gay. please state it in your next post or simply show honesty and integrity admit your clime is factually wrong

    anything besides listing the law or admitting you are wrong will result in another failure of your claims and your posts losing to facts.

    Im betting this is dodged or back peddled on who is in?

    also to answer your question "right to contract" doesnt have anything to do with this but somebody made that false claim too
    Laws don't say you must do something, they say what you are not allowed to do. Really dude? Another strawman fail.. Added to the list. You win in your mind because you have the questions all wrong. You start with the premise that laws make people do things, they do not, they provide a basis for what you may not do, and as a result, you do what you're allowed to do without doing anything that you are not allowed to do. In your scenario, YOU as the widget vendor are not allowed to not sell to him because he is specifically gay. In this sense, if you follow the law and do not want to break it, you must sell to him his 500 widgets, provided you have them in stock. You are legally barred from not selling them to him specifically because you suspect he is gay. Do you get it now? In order for you to grow in this discussion you must first understand what laws do and do not do. They do not say you are allowed to do certain things, they tell you what you are not allowed to do. In the case of the Constitution, they tell the government what they cannot do.

    Light coming on yet?

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So basically you're talking about seventy and eighty year olds :lol
    Yeah, basically. People in their sixties (young adults during the 60's) came from a period and culture that isn't especially bizarre to me. I like their music, I get a lot of what was politically important to them, etc. But if you're going to tell me about bread lines, WWII or dust bowls, I just can't see that stuff unless it's in black and white photos.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    And they still have the huge fine hanging over their heads, and didn't they have a nice little storefront before? Yeah, they are completely undamaged.
    by their own doing i dont feel bad for criminals
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's not intended as a compliment, that's for sure, but it (WAS?) is a useful word to describe a person who is intolerant of people of different ethnic/religious/national origin/sexual orientation, etc. It was until recently universally understood to refer to, e.g., those defending Jim Crow laws in the South in the 1950s and NOT those working to overturn those laws. It would apply to a business owner with "WHITES ONLY" in the window and not a business owner who fires a waiter for refusing to wait on "fa*s or ni**ers" and whose restaurant welcomes anyone of any race, creed or color as customers. Etc.
    Oh I know what it was intended as.

    Speaking of Whites Only and redefining...

    Adam Reposa Video Austin White-Only Stickers | Mediaite
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Yeah, basically. People in their sixties (young adults during the 60's) came from a period and culture that isn't especially bizarre to me. I like their music, I get a lot of what was politically important to them, etc. But if you're going to tell me about bread lines, WWII or dust bowls, I just can't see that stuff unless it's in black and white photos.
    Actually, I edited my post since I notice you were talking about adults in the 1950's. People that were born in the fifties more than likely didn't come to age until the seventies.

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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Laws don't say you must do something, they say what you are not allowed to do. Really dude? Another strawman fail.. Added to the list. You win in your mind because you have the questions all wrong. You start with the premise that laws make people do things, they do not, they provide a basis for what you may not do, and as a result, you do what you're allowed to do without doing anything that you are not allowed to do. In your scenario, YOU as the widget vendor are not allowed to not sell to him because he is specifically gay. In this sense, if you follow the law and do not want to break it, you must sell to him his 500 widgets, provided you have them in stock. You are legally barred from not selling them to him specifically because you suspect he is gay. Do you get it now? In order for you to grow in this discussion you must first understand what laws do and do not do. They do not say you are allowed to do certain things, they tell you what you are not allowed to do. In the case of the Constitution, they tell the government what they cannot do.

    Light coming on yet?

    Tim-
    wow I knew you would back pedal and dodge it LOL
    like i said context and what is actually being discussed not your fantasies and lies. I suggest you read what others actually claimed and i proved wrong or you stop posting blatant lies. your claims are 100% false.
    you said " You start with the premise that laws make people do things" ???what, i didnt claim that at all. if you disagree quote me saying that, you wont be able to and any attempts will be ANOTHER fail.
    your post and claims lose and facts win . . . . again
    thanks for playing
    Last edited by AGENT J; 03-27-15 at 03:48 PM.
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