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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #61
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers - CNN.com



    Wow. WTF Indiana????
    You trying to out-religious the bible-belt states?
    Is Indiana becoming Mississippi2.0 or something?

    This is going to be interesting to watch.
    I look at news stories like this and think "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip out of your fingers." It's the last throes of a dying creed.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post


    His inaction enabled him. Enabling is helping. Nice try.
    Inaction is not facilitation. For example, two homosexuals can still get married even if a Christian photographer declines to photograph their wedding. But the photographer did not facilitate the wedding

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Well, since government is the people in a community and they through their representatives determine the laws and regulations that govern that community, why do you favour a collectively enacted law that allows a private business to discriminate and yet oppose the community collectively, through their representatives, enacting a law to discriminate against a business? Do you feel that businesses have a higher level of rights and equality than a single person?
    The idea that the U.S. Constitution as drafted by its Founders required that the government tolerate such practices is an alien interpretation that has nothing to do with the Founders' original intent. In Federalist No. 10, wrote about the benefits of a republican form of government. In part, such a government would have the authority to override factional interests that posed harm to the nation. He wrote, "If a faction consists of less than a majority, relief is supplied by the republican principle, which enables the majority to defeat its sinister views by regular vote." In short, the Founders envisioned that the Constitutional framework would provide relief from oppressive factional interests. This case falls squarely into the kind of issues that could be addressed in a constitutional fashion.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Yes,and if a business owner does not want to do business that facilitates what he considers wrong behavior, then he is discriminated against by the government.

    What's odd here is that my argument favors allowing private parties, including businesses, to discriminate based on their personal beliefs. The opposing argument favors allowing government to discriminate. The real evil is when government discriminates


    Bigotry is bad, but not bad enough to do anything about, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't profess to be a US Constitution expert, but doesn't the Commerce Clause give government the right to do just that
    That is the lie the big government types tell, to be sure.

    The Commerce Clause is a catch-all for anything they want to expand the power of government.

    Hell, the Supreme Court ruled in the 90s that not selling marijuana in California but growing it for personal use still fell under the damned Commerce Clause. You can't make **** this crazy up. Only Rehnquist, O'Connor, and Thomas dissented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Article I, Section 8
    The Congress shall have Power...

    ... To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian Tribes
    Achem - "among the several states."

    The purpose of this specific text, per James Madison, was to prevent tolls and tariffs between individual states within the union.

    The clause in its entirety gives Congress authority to ensure free trade within the nation itself and to have authority to impose duties on commerce with other nations.


    It says absolutely nothing about compelling a business or individual within a given state to give custom to anyone.

    And yet, for Congress to have that power, it would have to explicitly state EXACTLY that.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 03-26-15 at 10:00 AM.

  6. #66
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    False again. No government has special rules for religious owners of businesses that they do not have for non-religious owners of businesses. Discrimination, by definition, is the treatment of one party differently from another for no appreciable reason other than whom they are. No person is forced to open a business that sells to the public. Any person who chooses to open a business that sells to the public shall be entitled to do so provided they follow the rules and regulations established by the municipal entity in which they set up shop, period.

    How about collecting sales tax? Should a business owner be free to refuse to collect sales tax on behalf of the municipality or state because they don't agree with it? Perhaps on religious grounds they disagree with some tax dollars going to support programs for gay people, Muslims, planned parenthood, etc. Should they be allowed to refuse to participate in that sin?
    That is exactly what they're doing. If a business owner declines to do business for certain events based on his personal beliefs, he is punished to the point of being forced out of business. That is a discrimination of sorts that some people find acceptable

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Using that logic, doing nothing about (___racism___) enables, and since enables is helping, helps racists... Just enter whatever issue into the blank: the poor, polluters, drug addition, terrorism, etc. Sweet logic!
    Now you know why many conservatives are often seen as narcissistic bigots.

    Glad I could help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post

    Bigotry is bad, but not bad enough to do anything about, right?
    The bigotry we see today is aimed at people of conscience, particularly religious conscience

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Not with His help though
    Isn't He omnipotent?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  10. #70
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    Now you know why many conservatives are often seen as narcissistic bigots.

    Glad I could help.
    Only conservatives? Perhaps an example is in order....
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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