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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #631
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Good grief, give me an example of a business that in no way can have a dress code. If entire shopping malls can have them, I bet any business can have them if they so choose.

    Ie, This business must allow Sangha to enter while wearing skinhead / waffen SS wear* and must serve him.

    Confess it, you are wrong on this matter. Dont worry, I wont tell too anybody, well not too many people. Confession is good for the soul. I"ll take yours now.... .

    *not that you actually wear the stuff.
    Have You Reserved Your Right to Refuse Service? - Free Enterprise
    We reserve the right to refuse service.

    The sign's message is clear and simple, but the truth is that a business can't reserve a wholesale right to refuse service.

    As places of public accommodation, private businesses are subject to federal and state anti-discrimination laws. These statutes prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, disability, gender and sex. Some also include sexual orientation.

    And others, well they outlaw even arbitrary discrimination.

    For example, California's Unruh Civil Rights Act prohibits all types of arbitrary discrimination. This includes biases based on physical attributes, political beliefs, and geographical origin.

    Courts also tend not to favor arbitrary discrimination. In the past, judges have used consumer protection, unfair business practice, and tort laws to punish such practices.

    None of this means that you absolutely cannot refuse to serve a customer. It simply means that you need a legitimate business reason to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Attachment 67182392


    Product lines are differentiated by differences in - well - the product. Above is one of the wedding cakes in the Masterpiece Cakes catalog.

    1. What part of this cake identifies this as a "same sex marriage cake" in contrast to a "different sex marriage cake" as opposed to just a "wedding cake"?

    2. What part of this cake is different when purchased by same-sex couples in contrast to different-sex couples:
    A. Is it the recipe?
    B. Is it the materials?
    C. Is it the decoration (notice this cake does not employ toppers or text)?




    Or is the difference not in fact in the cake, the difference being the customers that purchase such a cake.



    >>>>
    I'd agree that the customer shouldn't make a difference to the service provider. Their money spends the same as everyone else's, and the same work and materials goes into the service or product produced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    For me, this is a a grey area. Gays must be allowed to order a generic wedding cake just like a birthday cake. Owner should not need to make it a same sex cake per se:

    owner: Here is your generic wedding cake. No, I am not going to put a "two grooms" center piece on it. No, I am not going to write "Adam and Steve, united in marriage on it".
    Now there, it would seem that the request has gone beyond the offered product / services, but I can also see where that'd be grounds that would have to be argued, the weakest link there being 'you customize nearly everyone else's cake with scripts, don't you?'
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Not so. New Jersey law made the Boy Scouts a public accommodation, and yet it was free to revoke scoutmaster Dale's membership because it did not want to accommodate homosexuals. Massachusetts law made the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Boston a public accommodation, and yet the parade's organizers were free to refuse to include an Irish-American homosexual group in the parade. In both cases, the homosexuals were excluded because the private persons in charge of the public accommodation didn't want them.

    States cannot broaden the definition of "public accommodation" to include every imaginable organization or business, and then force those organizations and businesses to enter into contracts with everyone who wants to have dealings with them. The Christian owners of the Hitching Post, for example, did not want to let homosexuals use the wedding chapel they ran as a business--and they didn't have to.

    The proponents of the homosexual agenda have taken an old common-law provision meant to keep travelers from freezing to death because innkeepers denied them lodgings, and tried to make it into a weapon to bully private persons in all sorts of commercial endeavors into contracting to provide homosexuals various goods and services against their will.
    And this is a legitimate bone of contention from my view.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  4. #634
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong.
    Really - why do I see these signs?

    image.jpg
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #635
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Really - why do I see these signs?

    image.jpg
    Because business owners are allowed to put up signs.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #636
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Ask a Black minister or any Black with a lick of sense if they think there's difference.
    It's pretty easy to find examples in our history of people finding support for slavery and for racism in their religion. That it's no longer common in 2015 doesn't make that any less true. And it's also true that the rural South is outwardly religious and has been for all of my lifetime, but somehow a large majority of the voting whites in Southern states somehow squared institutionalized racism and second class status for blacks with their deeply held religious beliefs.

    And I really don't see the effective difference between bigotry rooted in intolerance or hate, and bigotry rooted in "religion." From the outside, and to those on the other end of the bigotry, they look pretty much the same. it would seem more intellectually honest to just allow discrimination against LGBT, period, instead of giving it the shine of legitimacy by requiring that there be some basis in religion to justify it.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Really - why do I see these signs?

    image.jpg
    Health Department requirements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Right....I disagree the Homosexual plight has anything to do with the civil rights movement. Guess I'm a bigot.

    What of it?
    I'm curious how you come to any meaningful difference between discriminating based on race, and especially religion, versus sexual orientation.

  9. #639
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    The statement was if any such policy was published, it was "First I am not intimately familiar with hospital policy but I do not remember seeing a question about sexual preference on the information sheet either at the emergency room nor at my doctors or surgeons office."


    Questions are asked and information derived. Which is what I responded to.



    >>>>
    Information can always be derived. The question should be: Is it be derived and if so by who, where, and how often.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #640
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Shame on the State of Indiana, especially their bigoted Governor and legislature. You would think that in 2015 we would be beyond this type of hatred and bigotry. This simply shows that for all the progress that America has made, we are still a long ways away from being a country that treats everyone fairly and equally. The bigots will lose.....but the battle remains.
    There's more than just a bit of irony in these situations. The business owner says that he doesn't agree with a person's choices so he chooses not to do business with that person. That person (the one from the tolerance crowd mind you) responds by saying that he does not agree with the business owner's choices so he is going to use the full force of the law to inflict harm on the business owner.

    Tolerance is certainly a complex (and obviously hypocritical) issue

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