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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #621
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    That of course is the goal, to force Christians (mostly) out of the marketplace unless they conform to the homosexual agenda. This is what passes for tolerance these days. Conform or be harmed
    What agenda is furthered by the selling of a cake? I don't build decks to further any agenda and could care less what people use them for.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Not so. New Jersey law made the Boy Scouts a public accommodation, and yet it was free to revoke scoutmaster Dale's membership because it did not want to accommodate homosexuals. Massachusetts law made the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Boston a public accommodation, and yet the parade's organizers were free to refuse to include an Irish-American homosexual group in the parade. In both cases, the homosexuals were excluded because the private persons in charge of the public accommodation didn't want them.
    In that post, I explicitly mentioned that there are exceptions, and in another I noted it included exceptions for expressive organizations

    Try to keep up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Oh...I don't doubt that there are a lot of good people in Indiana. I don't mean to label everyone in Indiana as the bigots who passed this legislation. Hell....I was embarassed of my own State when Prop 8 passed. That aside....it reflects poors on the state just like prop 8 did California.
    yeah, it really does. furthermore, they knew that it would. Pence has been bitching about the media coverage, even to the media themselves. however, i don't think any of them expected this to go viral like it has. their fallback position is that a bunch of other states including Illinois have done the same thing, and that the law doesn't change anything.

    my response : then why in the **** did you pass it, asshole? answer : because it does exactly what everyone is afraid that it does, and you're mad that gay marriage is now legal in Indiana. that's why. also, a bunch of states had Jim Crow. that doesn't make the law ok. it wasn't right then, and it's still wrong, no matter how many states have versions of it. it's a slap in the face to gay people, and they've been slapped around too much already.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    In some types of businesses, dress codes are allowed. In others, it is not.
    No, all business can potentially have dress codes. Some may choose to enact dress codes, others not.

    They core concept is that person wearing baggy pants, rebel pride shirt, Waffen SS stuff etc. is not a protected class. Thus they can be refused service.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    No, all business can potentially have dress codes. Some may choose to enact dress codes, others not.
    Wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    In that post, I explicitly mentioned that there are exceptions, and in another I noted it included exceptions for expressive organizations

    Try to keep up.
    I can't be bothered to read every one of your posts. I was responding to your statement in one of them, and that statement was not accurate.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) and that observation would be wrong . . there is a choice . . a choice not to go into business and think you are allowed to break the law.

    Hehehe, I had you pegged with this line of reasoning 25 pages ago, and I was shocked frankly that you resisted actually saying it until just now.

    All I'm going to say is, gee dude, way to skirt the topic. The topic of debate isn't about whether people of conscience should go into business or not, it is that the state of Indiana has decided to protect those people of conscience that ARE in business already, or who may decide to do so in the future? Your little (Although very obvious what you were thinking) dance around Henrin, and Bergers insights notwithstanding, how about you actually address the reality posed by the OP?

    The reality (As if it needs to be said once again) is that in Indiana, people of any stripe can refuse business to people that are gay, based on conscientious objection. It also reinforces several constitutional concepts regarding association, speech, and expression thereof. Just like someone now has a right (Although the constitution - not the fluid one libbos like - already says as much) to choose where they patron, likewise a establishment has the right to choose its customers. Not a smart business decision to turn away anyone willing to give you custom for your services and or products, but, in principle the liberty should be there to do so. The market will sort out whether or not this was a good idea in both directions, so time will tell.

    The fact that I mention this is actually two-fold. I see where approving of this law has merit and a good solid argument for it, however, you might find that I actually oppose this law as I find it carried out to its logical conclusion is more divisive than what its intentions are. In short, I see where Pence and the people of Indiana where heading with this, and why they felt with recent infringement on religious freedoms, warranted a reaction, but I think that they never really thought it all the way through to its end. Many things could happen, but it follows that Indiana could literally force all gays (As an example) our of their state because what might happen is that once one business does it, others tend to follow, and if everyone disallows gays, then the laws purpose is defeated and the state is left holding whatever bag is left to hold. I'm torn because the founders were very clear about why states have rights, and how they would become laboratories of democracy, and in the end, things that work will stick, and things that don't will not. Other states would be paying attention and learn as well.

    It makes sense in so many ways to have it like that, frankly, and as such, Indiana will (If given the chance) let us all know just exactly what impact enacting these kinds of laws will have. In the end I don't think gays should be denied service based simply on their sexual orientation, BUT, someone like a baker, or photographer or wedding planner providing a service that feels that they cannot service their God and homosexuals at the same time with enough conviction to actually take a principled stand insodoing, does have merit, and in all honesty, I fail to see how any gays that sue them for it, actually show material harm was incurred by said baker, planner or photographer for objecting to their lifestyle? There is no harm done, other than hurt feelings, but hurt feelings is not material harm, gee could you imagine what country we'd be if that were the case?

    This was all brought about because a small but very vocal contingent of gays seek out this kind of confrontation with the explicit intent of making it an issue. THIS is the kind of tactic that American's are waking up to, and they should tred very lightly, get over themselves and move on. If they had, it wouldn't require that state legislatures enact legislation being asked of them by their constituents. Wake up call to the militant gays among us. Just suck it up, and go elsewhere, not everyone will bend to your will, there are people out there with the guts to take stand, and many will join them. Don't like these laws? Tough, you made it necessary by your overreaching, militant approach to force everyone to accept you.

    Tim-
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    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's clear the business community did oppose this garbage, but unfortunately the reality when dealing with nutjob conservatives, every major boycott will have the effect of many thousands of phone calls. They show little evidence of giving the first damn about (especially outside) public opinion, but they will usually listen to their sugar daddies and business supporters.
    yeah, but if you call instead of boycott, you will actually be targeting the assholes who did this. if you boycott instead of call, people like me get fired. who are you mad at, me or them?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong.
    Good grief, give me an example of a business that in no way can have a dress code. If entire shopping malls can have them, I bet any business can have them if they so choose. Ie, This business must allow Sangha to enter while wearing skinhead / waffen SS wear* and must serve him.

    Confess it, you are wrong on this matter. Dont worry, I wont tell too anybody, well not too many people. Confession is good for the soul. I"ll take yours now.... .

    *not that you actually wear the stuff.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 03-27-15 at 10:52 AM.

  10. #630
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I can't be bothered to read every one of your posts. I was responding to your statement in one of them, and that statement was not accurate.
    My statement said that there were exceptions. My statement was accurate.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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