Page 57 of 320 FirstFirst ... 747555657585967107157 ... LastLast
Results 561 to 570 of 3196

Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #561
    Professor
    Citizen.Seven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Last Seen
    01-24-17 @ 04:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,967

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Everyone has the right to associate, be it personal or commercial, with anyone who likewise agrees. The key component is mutual agreement. Conversely, everyone has the right not to associate with anyone for whatever reason they choose. Anything else is coercion. It's a pity US law doesn't fully respect this self-evident right of free people.

  2. #562
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,701

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Actually, in this country, you can decide all day long who you will sell your wares to. You can decide you don't want to sell your wares to bikers, hippies, cigarette smokers, brunettes, people with brown eyes, people who smell bad, people who love cats, and so on.

    What you can't do is decide you don't want to sell your wares to the protected classes. You can decline service to or an engagement of commerce with any gay person you want to. You just can't say you're doing it because the person is gay.
    Good morning TB - that's fair - I should have clarified what I was getting at, but you've done it for me.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  3. #563
    Guru
    WorldWatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    03-24-17 @ 04:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,031

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That's actually more correct of a view than Pence's. First I am not intimately familiar with hospital policy but I do not remember seeing a question about sexual preference on the information sheet either at the emergency room nor at my doctors or surgeons office. Nor has my sexual preference ever been asked to me or anyone in my family at a hospital...

    I have never been asked my sexual orientation at a doctors office or in a hospital situation directly, however in all locations they have asked about insurance and family relationships. We take our insurance through my wife's employer so if we were a same sex couple that would become obvious. In addition form ask for emergency contact information and relationship (Spouse, parent, child, etc.).



    >>>>

  4. #564
    Guru
    HenryChinaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chitown
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    2,811

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Please post the details when you get them. Are you saying that your friend has been denied medical treatment in Indiana since 1980 because he's gay? And this isn't public knowledge?
    I don't know if they have been denied medical treatment in the past. I'm making a general statement that they have been treated differently and unfairly by their community in the past. When they first moved to Fairmount, it was made clear that they were "unwelcome" when it was discovered that they were gay. Even today, now that they bring a huge source of revenue in tourist dollars to Fairmount and really are a fixture there, they still feel unwelcome. Now the businesses in Fairmount may feel that they have the law backing them when they refuse them service.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

  5. #565
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 06:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    I have never been asked my sexual orientation at a doctors office or in a hospital situation directly, however in all locations they have asked about insurance and family relationships. We take our insurance through my wife's employer so if we were a same sex couple that would become obvious. In addition form ask for emergency contact information and relationship (Spouse, parent, child, etc.).



    >>>>
    Granted it can be guessed or derived through indirect information but who is looking at indirect information? I know of no hospital that publishes it's policy to reject treating homosexuals. Perhaps someone in this thread can provide a hospital that does that as I'd be interested to see if it exists and if it does, how common it is.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #566
    Tavern Bartender
    Kinky tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    03-24-17 @ 08:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    37,196

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Good morning TB - that's fair - I should have clarified what I was getting at, but you've done it for me.
    Morning CJ. I'm tired today. Much fun last night. Rangers brought Ottawa's hot streak to an end.

    I assumed you knew what I said. I wanted to just restate it. That's what my problem is with the entire issue. It's okay to refuse service to anyone you want, as long as it isn't someone of the protected class and you aren't specifically saying the reason is because of the protected class. Technically any business can decline service to any gay person today. You just can't say it's because of that. That's what also makes this law BS. I get that it had to be done in the 1960s because of the treatment of blacks, but we've overcompensated to the point that it's just ridiculous. That's why these threads always end up as they do, with both sides lobbing insults at each other, making rude blanket statements about political parties, screaming about "the LAW!", and the constant barrage of over the top dramatic hyperbole.

    Go Rangers.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  7. #567
    Tavern Bartender
    Kinky tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    03-24-17 @ 08:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    37,196

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    I don't know if they have been denied medical treatment in the past. I'm making a general statement that they have been treated differently and unfairly by their community in the past. When they first moved to Fairmount, it was made clear that they were "unwelcome" when it was discovered that they were gay. Even today, now that they bring a huge source of revenue in tourist dollars to Fairmount and really are a fixture there, they still feel unwelcome. Now the businesses in Fairmount may feel that they have the law backing them when they refuse them service.
    Sounds like you know them intimately. Great that one of them was coincidentally refused medical treatment within minutes of Pence signing this bill so we could all read an anecdote about how a doctor is already refusing to treat a gay man in Indiana because of this law. Call me skeptical, but I'd like to see a little more proof than your second hand information.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #568
    Professor

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Last Seen
    02-18-17 @ 10:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,828

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Because the rural ****holes in the state want to force the 12 more enlightened counties to allow such discrimination. Where is the "states' rights" crowd now in calling for the rights of counties and cities to determine their own values?
    This is about allowing individuals to determine their own values

  9. #569
    Guru
    WorldWatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    03-24-17 @ 04:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,031

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Granted it can be guessed or derived through indirect information but who is looking at indirect information? I know of no hospital that publishes it's policy to reject treating homosexuals. Perhaps someone in this thread can provide a hospital that does that as I'd be interested to see if it exists and if it does, how common it is.

    The statement was if any such policy was published, it was "First I am not intimately familiar with hospital policy but I do not remember seeing a question about sexual preference on the information sheet either at the emergency room nor at my doctors or surgeons office."


    Questions are asked and information derived. Which is what I responded to.



    >>>>

  10. #570
    Sage

    eohrnberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,972
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) no matter your opinions we are all protected groups . . all of us. if you disagree describe a person who is not protected . . .you will fail
    Hmm

    • Race – Civil Rights Act of 1964
    • Color – Civil Rights Act of 1964
    • Religion – Civil Rights Act of 1964
    • National origin – Civil Rights Act of 1964
    • Age (40 and over) – Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
    • Sex – Equal Pay Act of 1963 and Civil Rights Act of 1964
    • Pregnancy – Pregnancy Discrimination Act
    • Citizenship – Immigration Reform and Control Act
    • Familial status – Civil Rights Act of 1968 Title VIII: Housing cannot discriminate for having children, with an exception for senior housing
    • Disability status – Vocational Rehabilitation and Other Rehabilitation Services of 1973 and Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
    • Veteran status – Vietnam Era Veterans' Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 and Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act
    • Genetic information – Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act
    Protected class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In a Ven diagram (remember those from high school) each of the above groups is a subset of the total population. The one group that doesn't seem to be represented would be White Males from birth to age 40.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    2.) in reality already proved it with examples, if you disagree give me a person i cant refuse service to and ill show you how
    3.) i dont believe the bakers were ever fined BUT if they were the fact you are missing they were NEVER fined for not serving a "protected" group since that is NOT a crime.
    Non sequitur. I believe that your 'facts' are confused. It would appear that the Christian bakers in question were in fact fined.


    Fines laid for not servicing a protected group, or so it would appear. Granted, I've not followed the case closely. Some developments may have changed the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    SO obviously you are factually wrong and have been for pages but you simply dont understand the topic enough to know that. fact remains there is ZERO laws forcing service to groups in this case.
    4.) yes we know you "think" you did but facts, rights, laws, links, examples and reality all prove you wrong
    5.) see #4
    6.) see #4
    7.) since im honest, objective and topically educated on this subject i would have ZERO fear of refusing you service because i know its not against the law.
    So then the justification for fining the Christian bakers is what, exactly? Or was that an illegal action by the government that assessed these fines?
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    You are wrong again
    8.) wouldnt cost me anything because if i said no there are no laws broken
    fact remains i can "refuse service" to anybody i want and there are no laws forcing me to say yes
    facts win again

    if you disagree simply tell us all the law that forces me to serve everybody or gays or Christian . . please tell us the la in your next post. You will dodge this question.
    It's a global Jihad, stupid. Allowing that poison into the country is only going to increase the damage it inflicts on others.
    Trump: "When You Open Your Heart To Patriotism, There Is No Room For Prejudice"
    Trump to NYT: “Try reporting accurately & fairly!”

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •