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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #511
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Explain how freedom of association and freedom of trade is fascist.
    Legalized discrimination is a hallmark of fascism.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    So do you endorse the idea that rather than disagreement, it is OK to refer to people as "trash" who live in "shanty towns"? Sorry, but I think that is just as bad.
    I believe bigotry, like racism, gets tossed around pretty freely on sites like this. In my view, bigotry is simply the irrational hatred of an identifiable group of people for who they are collectively and not their actions or who they are individually. In that regard, claiming as Chromium does that those who wish to exercise freedom of religion in this context are "trash who live in shanty towns" is both bigoted against the religious but also, in a backhanded way, those who live in shanty towns. There are many exceptionally fine people who populate both religion and shanty towns and to call either or both collectively trash is bigotry.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  3. #513
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Guess we have to recap again since facts keep wining.
    I keep asking for proof and facts to prove the list wrong below and NOBODY can do it . . .hmmmm I wonder why?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    lets recap the facts

    there are no laws forcing or compelling anybody to do business with gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
    there is no right to service
    there is no force to accept gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
    there is no force to serve gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    example.

    I make widgets and I make the best damn widgets money can buy. Thornton Melon is one of my financiers !

    I make them big, small, fat and skinny. I make them in any color and out of many materials.

    Business is great and its booming

    A person (pick thier gender, race, sexual orientation and religion etc.) walks in and they want 200K widgets by april 5th.
    lets go with Black, female, Muslim, lesbian, republican who works at an abortion clinic
    I deny her business because Im booked and cant possible make her deadline, my stock is tight as it is and she'll have to get her widgets from somewhere else so i say no
    perfectly legal and i wasn't forced to do business with her in any way because she was gay or anything else and I said NO because there is no force to say yes. No laws broken nor were there any rights infringed

    another person (pick thier gender, race, sexual orientation and religion) walks in and wants 500 widgets by april 4th
    lets go with white, male, Christian, conservative, who is a KKK member and he told me he wants the widgets to set on fire in the shape of "no -n-words welcome" at his next rally. I refuse because i am again busy and i would never sell my widgets to be used for firewood.
    perfectly legal and i wasn't forced to do business with hem in any way because he was christian or anything else and i said NO because there is no force to say yes. No laws were broken nor were there any rights infringed.
    there are no laws forcing or compelling anybody to do business with gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
    there is no right to service
    there is no force to accept gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc
    there is no force to serve gays or genders, races, sexual orientations, religions etc

    lets add these below since people falsely and laughably claimed otherwise

    there is no force to say yes
    religious rights are not infringed
    right to associate is not infringed
    right to a contract is not infringed

    feel free to provide any facts that prove otherwise, not opinions but facts. So far nobody has been able to do it and its been a huge losing battle on thier end.

    Facts win again
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Legalized discrimination is a hallmark of fascism.
    Is it? Says who? But its not legalization, its decriminalization. Its not a state mandate or endorsement of discrimination, but allowing everyone the freedom to make their own decisions. That is a hallmark of liberty, not fascism. If I don't like you and don't want to associate with you or do business with you, why should that make me a criminal? The truth is, you and I have the right to discriminate and do it all day every day.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Explain how freedom of association and freedom of trade is fascist.
    those arent the topic nor what he called facist since neither deal with OP.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  6. #516
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    So do you endorse the idea that rather than disagreement, it is OK to refer to people as "trash" who live in "shanty towns"?
    It depends. If the people being referred to are trash who live in shanty towns, then it's OK to refer to them that way. I do not know enough about Indiana to determine if that characterization is true or not. If it's not true, then the characterization is bigoted.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Intolerance of intolerance doesn't seem like a logical attitude, but if you can rationalize it for yourself, go for it.

    As I recall, much of Indiana borders rural areas, is your implication that anywhere with too many white people is automatically intolerant? It isn't clear to me that these places are that poor. From some data I searched for, it looks like most of the high poverty areas in Indiana are in cities: Bloomington, Muncie, Lafayette, etc: Indiana Poverty Rate by County.

    Are you rationalizing your own intolerance with stereotypes?
    it means they struck first, and i'm giving them what they deserve. It's not going to be logical to someone who thinks this law is perfectly fine and we should do nothing in response

    98% white is obviously by design, and minorities do not feel welcome in small towns period. Hell, no one wants to live there, except for inbreeders. That's why they're small. There is little to no exposure to openly gay people, so it's no surprise that these areas are among the most bigoted and most supported this law. My implication is that lack of diversity breeds intolerance

    First, all the "yes" votes were from repubs. Talk about the party of hate. Now where are the constituents who voted them in? Yep, away from the cities! District 1-3 (near Gary) all voted Dem, as well District 8/10 (South Bend), 25 (Muncie), 30-36 (Indy)...you get the idea. I could not find a single Dem in the legislature who wasn't elected by city dwellers, and not a single Repub not elected by a hodgepodge of villages. The only case even close to straddling the line was District 48 (Evansville), practically southern

    Here's a list of some of the shanty towns i referred to: Indiana Very Small Towns and Villages (fewer than 1000 residents) - Real Estate, Housing, Schools, Residents, Crime, Pollution, Demographics and More

    Now really, try gleaning anything useful from the "poverty rate" of a town of 287 residents. Wealth is also useless because there's nowhere to spend within 30 miles! But just pay a visit and you'll see what i meant - 4 churches, confederate flags, no businesses of any kind, trailers with single mom and her 3 kids, and everyone is white. Oh but put up a pride flag and see how long till it gets confiscated and you get mugged

    Your chart is outdated and based on county, and the calculation for poverty derived from self reporting. Obviously a city like indianapolis is only part of the county it's in and some shanty towns are in counties that also have towns of respectable size and even (gasp) minorities living there. In Hancock County there is a town of 21,000 but also the one square mile trailer trash (99% white) collective of "Wilkinson" (pop 449). So your data is heavily skewed
    Last edited by chromium; 03-27-15 at 08:28 AM.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    So do you endorse the idea that rather than disagreement, it is OK to refer to people as "trash" who live in "shanty towns"? Sorry, but I think that is just as bad.
    i was calling bigots trash, and most of them happen to live in shanty towns. You can stop taking me out of context any time

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Is it? Says who? But its not legalization, its decriminalization. Its not a state mandate or endorsement of discrimination, but allowing everyone the freedom to make their own decisions. That is a hallmark of liberty, not fascism. If I don't like you and don't want to associate with you or do business with you, why should that make me a criminal? The truth is, you and I have the right to discriminate and do it all day every day.
    Clearly you oppose the civil rights act then on the grounds it banned discrimination, and you want the various groups protected by employment and housing laws (race, religion, gender, pregnancy status etc) all removed

    Or not?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers - CNN.com



    Wow. WTF Indiana????
    You trying to out-religious the bible-belt states?
    Is Indiana becoming Mississippi2.0 or something?

    This is going to be interesting to watch.
    The gay movement overshot and has made a role-back very likely. And I am afraid that as partial as I am to gays and their right to act in any way they feel they want to (just like anybody else) I feel that I cannot support them in their demands, where they want to rough-ride over the rights of others to conscientiously object.

    The triumphalist, nagging way the movement and some of the crasser members have been doing so is unappetizing and the others should understand, that they will loose out because of this behavior and the fact, that other people have feelings too.

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