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Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

Had your links demonstrated anything important I would have said so. As it is, they merely confirmed my suspicion that you were making a mountain out of a molehill. You actually made my point.

LOL.....yeah....riiiiiiiiiiight. You guys are always the same....whine and cry about "links" and when presented with the truth...run spin and deny. Nothing new. I knew it before I even bothered. The evidence is there right from the mouths of the Mormons themselves...but of course....you'll spin and deny that as well. Too funny.
 
intolerance of intolerance, /broken record till it sinks in

The whole state except for a few cities. The kind of places that are 98% white

I grew up on the Indiana border and I'm well aware how damn right wing and impoverished the rural areas are. Even the mayor of Indianapolis said he wants to make sure this new law doesn't reflect on his city, as it's the rural bigotry masked as "religious freedom" that is behind it

Funny how they do not care about the *freedom* of LGBT, not at all

The average American is just now becoming familiar with the label "LGBT." People hear more regarding same-sex relationships. I'm sure they don't mean to ignore these different groups, like Transgender etc. What disturbs me more than anything is the hypocrisy of the religious right; religions is supposed to teach us to love one another despite our gender preferences. Yet the Evangelicals are against same-sex love affairs and are passing laws that private restaurants may refuse to serve Gay people.
 
You have right to trade with anyone as you wish. If on the other hand, you wish to operate a business, then government requires you to adhere to a rules, regulations, and standards to do business. There are rules, regulations, and standards that protect the customer in your business that have nothing to do with customer 'rights'.

You have no right to sell putrid, spoiled food to your customers potentially harming the public health and safety.

I have a right to use my property as a for profit business. You can't say I must agree to serve people if I wish to use my property as a for profit business without violating my rights.

YOU may not want regulations...but we as the public demand it.

The public needs to learn to respect each others rights.
 
And that is why anti-discrimination laws violate property rights. ALL property owners have the right to ask anyone to leave.

Again....you couldn't be more wrong. You might personally believe that...but the law says otherwise. Sorry Charlie.
 
And that is why anti-discrimination laws violate the thirteen amendment as they amount to involuntary servitude.

You can either adhere to the process or rebuke the process... you have choice. You can leave the plantation any time you choose.
 
LOL.....yeah....riiiiiiiiiiight. You guys are always the same....whine and cry about "links" and when presented with the truth...run spin and deny. Nothing new. I knew it before I even bothered. The evidence is there right from the mouths of the Mormons themselves...but of course....you'll spin and deny that as well. Too funny.

The Mormons may have broken laws, and I was/am on the other side, but it was unimportant.
 
You can either adhere to the process or rebuke the process... you have choice. You can leave the plantation any time you choose.

Then I must serve people if I was to practice my right to use my property as a for profit business. You seem to be making the argument that I shouldn't practice my rights if I don't want to be aggressed upon. Are you sure that is the argument you want to go with?
 
Nope. Wrong again.

Hardly. They are forced to provide their labor, service, property and association to another human being. I''m entirely right in calling that involuntary servitude.
 
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:lamo

Andrew Sullivan is a self-described conservative who wasn't even born when the gay rights movement began

Andrew Sullivan, regardless of his affection for Oakshot (ian) UK branded conservatism has explicitly adopted support of mostly liberal policies (including Obamacare). He is not a political conservative and may, at best, be an iconoclast...regardless of what label he chooses.

Finally, he was born in 1963, long before the modern demands for same sex marriage rights.
 
You can either adhere to the process or rebuke the process... you have choice. You can leave the plantation any time you choose.

Pretty hard to leave you are surrounded by nothing but other plantations.
 
Pretty hard to leave you are surrounded by nothing but other plantations.

Yeah, it's like saying to a slave you can escape whenever you want. :lol:
 
It depends. Is it a private residence or a business open to the public? If it is the latter, then the business owner cannot ask someone to leave for reasons the violate anti-discrimination laws. Ever heard of the lunch-counters in the 50-60's? White Bigot business owners would love to be able to make black people to leave...but the law doesn't allow it. Same with these news attempts at similar actions.

Civil Rights violations would need to be proven in a court of law with a lawsuit. Because a white person asks a black person to leave their business does not automatically make it a civil rights issue. Context and the situation must be explored in court.. A business who cuts their clientele by excluding them puts their business at risk. Not necessarily a smart thing to do. Now back to this situation - a private business has the right to ask anyone to leave their premises. If they do not leave, the business owner can call the police and sign a complaint that the person is trespassing. Continued trespassing will incur additional charges. If the person who was removed believes they are being discriminated against - they can file suit against the business owner. Again, the court or a jury will decide.

None of that changes private property rights. Private property rights are not dismissed because one party screams "bigot", even if the claim of "bigot" is true.
 
Andrew Sullivan, regardless of his affection for Oakshot (ian) UK branded conservatism has explicitly adopted support of mostly liberal policies (including Obamacare). He is not a political conservative and may, at best, be an iconoclast...regardless of what label he chooses.

Finally, he was born in 1963, long before the modern demands for same sex marriage rights.

In his own words

Amazon.com: 0060188774: Books

My conservative lineage is an idiosyncratic one...

Andrew Sullivan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sullivan's Burkean conservativism is rooted in his British Catholic background and in the political philosophy of his mentor, Michael Oakeshott.[1][2]

Sullivan describes himself as a conservative and is the author of The Conservative Soul. He has supported a number of traditional libertarian positions. He favours limited government and opposes interventionist measures such as affirmative action.[31]

Is Andrew Sullivan a conservative? - POLITICO.com
We ask Andrew Sullivan:

Do you still consider yourself a conservative?

Andrew Sullivan replies:

Absolutely. I wrote a book on my conservatism, 'The Conservative Soul.' But in so far as the word has been hijacked by religious fundamentalists and emotionally arrested Randians, I am not one of them. I'd fit easily into a conservative party in any other western democracy. But the GOP is a rogue in the western world - the most extremist right-wing party in any modern democracy by a mile. Banning all abortion and all gay marriages? Denying climate change science?

They're not conservatives, they're the loony right.

He's a conservative; He's just not a wingnut.

And the gay rights movement started long before the issue of SSM because contentious
 
Hardly. They are forced to provide their labor, service, property and association to another human being. I''m entirely right in calling that involuntary servitude.

Nope. You can believe that all you want in your fantasy world....the problem you have is that the laws of this great country disagree with you. Sorry...but that's the way it is.
 
Civil Rights violations would need to be proven in a court of law with a lawsuit. Because a white person asks a black person to leave their business does not automatically make it a civil rights issue. Context and the situation must be explored in court.. A business who cuts their clientele by excluding them puts their business at risk. Not necessarily a smart thing to do. Now back to this situation - a private business has the right to ask anyone to leave their premises. If they do not leave, the business owner can call the police and sign a complaint that the person is trespassing. Continued trespassing will incur additional charges. If the person who was removed believes they are being discriminated against - they can file suit against the business owner. Again, the court or a jury will decide.

None of that changes private property rights. Private property rights are not dismissed because one party screams "bigot", even if the claim of "bigot" is true.

None of your diatribe changes the facts. If a business opens itself to the public they have to comply with the laws. Sure....excluding one person would be hard to show a violation...but if there is a pattern it becomes pretty easy.
 
Hardly. They are forced to provide their labor, service, property and association to another human being. I''m entirely right in calling that involuntary servitude.

By the way...no one is forcing them to open their business. If they don't want to comply with the laws...then the solution is simple...don't open your doors. Its hardly "involuntary servitude". They CHOOSE to go into business. You cannot choose to do so and then complain that you have to comply with the laws. Sorry.
 
By the way...no one is forcing them to open their business. If they don't want to comply with the laws...then the solution is simple...don't open your doors. Its hardly "involuntary servitude". They CHOOSE to go into business. You cannot choose to do so and then complain that you have to comply with the laws. Sorry.

So the solution for them is to not practice their rights? So when anyone makes a choice and it results in their rights being violated by someone else I can just say they didn't have to make that choice. Interesting
 
Nope. You can believe that all you want in your fantasy world....the problem you have is that the laws of this great country disagree with you. Sorry...but that's the way it is.

Circular reasoning. Supporting the law with the law is not an argument.
 
So the solution for them is to not practice their rights? So when anyone makes a choice and it results in their rights being violated by someone else I can just say they didn't have to make that choice. Interesting

They don't have the right to discriminate. Period. What is so difficult to understand about that? When you open a business you don't get to write your own rules. No matter how much you stomp your feet and throw temper tantrums. You open a business....comply with the law. If you don't want to comply with the law...don't open a business. Simple. Sorry.
 
Circular reasoning. Supporting the law with the law is not an argument.


Its not circular at all. In fact very linear. Don't want to comply with the law --------don't open a business. Very simple.
 
They don't have the right to discriminate. Period. What is so difficult to understand about that? When you open a business you don't get to write your own rules. No matter how much you stomp your feet and throw temper tantrums. You open a business....comply with the law. If you don't want to comply with the law...don't open a business. Simple. Sorry.
And in Indiana they will now be complying with the law
 
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