Page 43 of 320 FirstFirst ... 3341424344455393143 ... LastLast
Results 421 to 430 of 3196

Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #421
    Randian PUA
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    58,787

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by BrewerBob View Post
    Yes, food is essential. Banana smoothies? Not so much.

    Liberty is always a balancing act. For me, personally, the government should only infringe on one's liberty when it GREATLY benefits the people and doesn't overburden them. For example, I am fine with not allowing explosives on commercial planes. The tradeoff is worth it.

    Preventing people from getting their meds is not worth a person's right to do whatever they want. Preventing someone from getting a cake is.

    I do limit this to private non-essential services. Publicly traded corporations should not be able to discriminate. They receive several financial advantages and protections under the law from the government and if they want to enjoy those advantages then they shouldn't be able to discriminate. And of course most grocery stores in the US are publicly traded corporations.

    I think laws should change with the times. I think there was a time in our recent history that public accommodation laws made sense. But I believe we have advanced enough that they are no longer needed. The overwhelming majority of business owners just want to make a profit.
    Your response is very interesting. On its' face, you make very reasonable sounding arguments that when examined, do not make sense.

    For example, you point out that banana smoothies are not essential. How can I argue with that? I really doubt anyone in all of history has ever died from lack of a banana smoothie. The thing is, you're not suggesting that the makers of banana smoothies be the only one allowed to discriminate. The butcher, the baker, the greengrocer, the fishmonger too. Not only them but the dry cleaner, the shoe store, the gas station, the auto mechanic, hotels, and on and on. All of the things we consider essential to modern life. Sure, they're not the "basic needs of life" the way medical care is but life in modern times, as a practical matter, requires such things. Not knowing whether one could access such goods and services, particularly when one is travelling, would be incredibly disruptive and burdensome to people and the economy as a whole.

    Even more disturbing to me is how you speak about the ability to discriminate, for any reason, as if it were a matter of liberty yet you're willing to restrict people's liberty on the most flimsy of basis. Public corps do receive benefits from the govt, but they also pay a price for them (ex double taxation and a greater amount of regulation). In addition, all businesses receive benefits from the govt. I can understand why you would want to limit public corps like that (after all, it would go a long way to ameliorating the disruption caused by arbitrary discrimination) but it lacks a rational basis grounded in our legal system.

    finally, as far as the "We've come a long way, baby" argument, the fact that there's enough support for such discrimination to cause a state legislature to pass such a bill demonstrates that we still have a long way to go, and laws gauranteeing public access are still needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #422
    Magic!

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    25,764

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    I decided to test my position on this issue by asking, how would I fare discriminating based on political association? In other words, could I discriminate against someone for being a Neo-Nazi? And I said, sure, why not, the bastards are hostile and repugnant to everything I am (though why a Neo-Nazi would want to give money to a Jew is entirely another kind of discussion).

    Whoops! I'd be successfully sued for this, apparently.

    KKK wins lawsuit against bakery for discrimination | Tribune Herald

    Which leads to at least one question: wtf is it with business discrimination lawsuits and bakeries anyway? At one point did the universe declare that humanity's discrimination wars would be waged in our nation's bakeries?

  3. #423
    Living in Gods country


    JANFU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    12,379

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Fair enough.
    Work went to **** - 2 people out of 6 quit - schedules a crud hole that i am working on.
    Thanks
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

  4. #424
    Guru
    WorldWatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:26 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,030

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    If I recall correctly, it was the black voters who passed Proposition 8 in the blue state of California.

    Blacks were 7% of the voting population and voted 58% in support of Prop 8.


    Other demographics that had a greater impact were:

    Conservative - 36% of the voting population voting 82% in support of the measure
    Republican - 34% of the voting population voting 81% in support of the measure
    Weekly Religious Services - 45% of the voting population voting 70% of the measure
    Age 65+ - 23% of the voting population voting 67% in support of the measure
    Latino/Hispanic - 14% of the voting population voting 59% in support of the measure



    It would be more accurate to say that Conservatives, Republicans, Religous Folks, older folks, and Latino/Hispanics had more impact on passing Prop 8 than did Blacks.


    http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_h...op8_1_6_09.pdf

    >>>>

  5. #425
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    45,280
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Blacks were 7% of the voting population and voted 58% in support of Prop 8.


    Other demographics that had a greater impact were:

    Conservative - 36% of the voting population voting 82% in support of the measure
    Republican - 34% of the voting population voting 81% in support of the measure
    Weekly Religious Services - 45% of the voting population voting 70% of the measure
    Age 65+ - 23% of the voting population voting 67% in support of the measure
    Latino/Hispanic - 14% of the voting population voting 59% in support of the measure



    It would be more accurate to say that Conservatives, Republicans, Religous Folks, older folks, and Latino/Hispanics had more impact on passing Prop 8 than did Blacks.


    http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_h...op8_1_6_09.pdf

    >>>>
    Except that several of your categories overlap to a great extent. Blacks were the unexpected difference makers.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #426
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    45,280
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Work went to **** - 2 people out of 6 quit - schedules a crud hole that i am working on.
    Thanks
    Good luck.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  7. #427
    Magic!

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    25,764

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Except that several of your categories overlap to a great extent. Blacks were the unexpected difference makers.
    Yes, and that overlap is primarily age and religiosity, and that if you take those factors into account the black factor is no longer relevant to the passing of Prop 8.

  8. #428
    Randian PUA
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    58,787

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    I didn't say otherwise.

    What I said was that a for-profit business calling themselves a "private club" does not automatically exempt themselves from Pubic Accommodation laws - which is different from what you said.

    * Selective membership and admission policies, such policies cannot intended to evade Public Accommodation laws

    * Bylaws and adherence to bylaws

    * Membership control over governance, non-membership control will disqualify an entity from being exempt from Public Accommodation laws.

    * A clear non-business statement of purpose, commercial or business directed purposes don't qualify for exemption from Public Accommodation laws

    * Operation as a "non-profit" entity, "for-profit" activities will typically disqualify an entity from being exempt from Public Accommodation laws

    * Advertisement and use of facilities, advertising availablity of resources typically will disqualify an entity from Pubic Accommodation laws


    https://www.nationalclub.org/clientu...nt%20marks.pdf
    Private club legal definition of Private club
    http://www.cmaa.org/uploadedFiles/PC...une02legal.pdf
    http://scholarship.law.umt.edu/cgi/v...vate%20club%22


    >>>>
    Ahh. I think we were just talking past each other. It seems we agree after all
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #429
    #NeverHillary
    eohrnberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,786
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Your facts aren't facts. Melissa's Cupcakes is still in business. They're running it out of their home
    And they still have the huge fine hanging over their heads, and didn't they have a nice little storefront before? Yeah, they are completely undamaged.
    It's a global Jihad, stupid. Allowing that poison into the country is only going to increase the damage it inflicts on others.
    Trump: "When You Open Your Heart To Patriotism, There Is No Room For Prejudice"

  10. #430
    Randian PUA
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    58,787

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    And they still have the huge fine hanging over their heads
    IOW, they haven't been fined so they weren't bankrupted by a fine

    As I said, your facts are not facts
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •