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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #391
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That's one possibility.

    But the people have rejected that choice.
    I find it absolutely amazing over seventy percent of the people oppose lowering the drinking age. Who here really believes only 25% of the people drink underage?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    I will lay a Canuck dollar you are in error.
    In what respect?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    In what respect?
    Basic human rights.

    Pence signs bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers - CNN.com
    Washington (CNN)Indiana Gov. Mike Pence's decision to sign into law a measure that could allow businesses to turn away gay and lesbian customers in the name of "religious freedom" has left the NCAA fretting ahead of next week's men's basketball Final Four in Indianapolis.
    Perhaps a substantial burden to be proven? Perhaps they are not legally related?
    Religious Freedom Restoration Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, Pub. L. No. 103-141, 107 Stat. 1488 (November 16, 1993), codified at 42 U.S.C. 2000bb
    through 42 U.S.C. 2000bb-4
    (also known as RFRA), is a 1993 United States federal law aimed at preventing laws that substantially burden a person's free exercise of religion. The bill was introduced by Congressman Chuck Schumer (D-NY) on March 11, 1993 and passed by a unanimous U.S. House and a near unanimous U.S. Senate with three dissenting votes[1] and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton. It was held unconstitutional as applied to the states in the City of Boerne v. Flores decision in 1997, which ruled that the RFRA is not a proper exercise of Congress's enforcement power. However, it continues to be applied to the federal government - for instance, in Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal - because Congress has broad authority to carve out exemptions from federal laws and regulations that it itself has authorized. In response to City of Boerne v. Flores, some individual states passed State Religious Freedom Restoration Acts that apply to state governments and local municipalities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Basic human rights.

    Pence signs bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers - CNN.com


    Perhaps a substantial burden to be proven? Perhaps they are not legally related?
    Religious Freedom Restoration Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I'm not sure what point you are making since you just made mine. In determining that the federal RFRA could not be extended to the states, SCOTUS encouraged the states to pass their own, as Indiana has now done.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Even in the case of hospitals if you are refused care they did not alter your condition. Sure, you might die without care, but that consequence was already in motion before you showed up, so they could not possibly be responsible for it.
    OK, this is why debating with libertarians is often so pointless. Sure, you're correctly repeating standard libertarian ideology, and it's totally unhinged from reality, unconscionable from a public policy standpoint, and obviously morally repugnant.

    Ah..I see, well, I'm not sure it is reasonable to hold someone accountable for your clients feelings.
    Well, to be fair, you wouldn't hold a hospital responsible for withholding life saving care, so obviously this isn't a problem in libertarian land....

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers - CNN.com



    Wow. WTF Indiana????
    You trying to out-religious the bible-belt states?
    Is Indiana becoming Mississippi2.0 or something?

    This is going to be interesting to watch.
    The bill needs to be changed so that businesses to reject any customer for any reason they want.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I'm not sure what point you are making since you just made mine. In determining that the federal RFRA could not be extended to the states, SCOTUS encouraged the states to pass their own, as Indiana has now done.
    Give me time and I will educate myself.
    I will get back to you on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    The three hospitals in my general area are all private and operated by the same corporation. I would have to travel almost an hour to the nearest not-for-profit hospital. To permit discrimination in healthcare related services is unconscionable.
    Are you sure that's the case? Generally speaking, a single corporation holding a monopoly on hospital services in such a large area would not be legal under the Clayton Antitrust Act.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Food is not essential?

    How do the people who provide those essential goods and services come to have less of a right to discriminate?

    How does the govt come to have the power to forbid those people from exercising that right?
    Yes, food is essential. Banana smoothies? Not so much.

    Liberty is always a balancing act. For me, personally, the government should only infringe on one's liberty when it GREATLY benefits the people and doesn't overburden them. For example, I am fine with not allowing explosives on commercial planes. The tradeoff is worth it.

    Preventing people from getting their meds is not worth a person's right to do whatever they want. Preventing someone from getting a cake is.

    I do limit this to private non-essential services. Publicly traded corporations should not be able to discriminate. They receive several financial advantages and protections under the law from the government and if they want to enjoy those advantages then they shouldn't be able to discriminate. And of course most grocery stores in the US are publicly traded corporations.

    I think laws should change with the times. I think there was a time in our recent history that public accommodation laws made sense. But I believe we have advanced enough that they are no longer needed. The overwhelming majority of business owners just want to make a profit.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Give me time and I will educate myself.
    I will get back to you on this.
    Fair enough.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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