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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It didn't cause the morale drop. The guy, who could just as easily entered with or without DADT in place, either pre-DADT or post-DADT, by simply lying, caused the drop in morale you mentioned. Sexually assaulting a person, male or female is still a crime.

    Most ships don't get that many pregnancies. We have a lot of people. I was on a carrier for 4 and 1/2 years. We did have pregnancies, but very few (this is why there is a mandatory pregnancy test given to all women 2 weeks after deploying). We also had people have family members die or get sick. We had people get hurt (heck had a guy get shot because he was playing quick draw, and a few more fall overboard, one simply didn't show back up from liberty in San Diego, but had his buddy claim he was there without verification, man overboards for 2 days straight, including calling GQ to try to find this guy til the buddy finally confessed that he covered for him). Stuff happens. That is life aboard ship. Most pregnancies do not occur because of sexual contact aboard ship or even in a liberty port, but rather in home port.
    All I can do is go by his words. He is a combat vet, a very intelligent man, and a close friend. I trust him when he says it destroyed morale, and I can see why the DADT environment made it difficult to deal with.

    As I understand it-at least 6 and up to 10 pregnancies is remarkable, on a carrier even, though Ive heard high numbers on smaller ships. This indicates a real problem-especially considering the enormous expenses to the taxpayer, and burden on the military that didn't exist before.

    And the initial prego check at 2 weeks is because it establishes a baseline that the woman is not prego on departure. There are more sensitive and specific tests, but they are more expensive. Im not denying stuff happens, Im saying THIS STUFF happens.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Wrong. It was Season 1: Episode 3. They were in her Kindergarten class and the teacher asked who they were and both Joey and Jesse claimed to be "this sweet little girl's father". I love the series. Have every season on DVD.

    And I never implied incest at all. I can see where you might have assumed that, but that was not the implication. If anything, I implied a same sex parenting situation, where only one "parent" had ties to the children being raised by people of the same sex. I also didn't imply anything sexual going on. You are the one who went to sexual thoughts when I was referring to parenting, specifically same sex parenting situations and different family situations than what most people had been used to seeing on sitcoms.
    Its odd that you know the episodes by heart, but then again my little sister and I would argue over who got to watch what, especially on Friday nights. I always wanted to watch macgyver, she'd fight me all she could-her heart out (and my little bro-the "swing voter", on occasion) to watch Full house.

    Do you think that the incidence you cite has more to do with making a comment on SSM and "nontraditional" families, or the characters desire to not make the little girl feel out of place and loved? For the record, I like the show-still do.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Anyone remember this a while back?

    New Mexico Governor's Hairstylist Refuses Service Over Gay-Marriage Stance | TIME.com

    I wonder how people feel about the hair stylist refusing service over the governor's beliefs and lifestyle choices. Why should they be some hero for "equal rights" when in fact people are acting equally on their beliefs, just on the other side of the fence?

    People shouldn't be forced to do things that go against their convictions or moral character, period.
    Amen. The fact is very few gays will be denied a precious wedding cake over this, and very few devout Religious people will take an absolute stand over this.

    But the govt is so ingrained, and so manipulative that people are distracted over this.

    I'd like to see a compromise reached, and in fact can easily see how that would be accomplished.

    But too many see this as an ideological argument that need not be-and assume govt is neutral in it.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    All I can do is go by his words. He is a combat vet, a very intelligent man, and a close friend. I trust him when he says it destroyed morale, and I can see why the DADT environment made it difficult to deal with.

    As I understand it-at least 6 and up to 10 pregnancies is remarkable, on a carrier even, though Ive heard high numbers on smaller ships. This indicates a real problem-especially considering the enormous expenses to the taxpayer, and burden on the military that didn't exist before.

    And the initial prego check at 2 weeks is because it establishes a baseline that the woman is not prego on departure. There are more sensitive and specific tests, but they are more expensive. Im not denying stuff happens, Im saying THIS STUFF happens.
    We have 5000+ crewmembers on a carrier. Most departments can pull 5-6 section duty in liberty ports, some do.

    And the other stuff happens too and is completely ignored to rant about women getting pregnant on ships. It is no more a problem than things men do on ships, including hazing each other or playing "quick draw", ending up with one of them shot. The military has had women in it for quite a while, much longer than either of us have been around.

    As for your buddy, either he or you are misconstruing where the destruction of morale is actually coming from. Again, any person, of any sexuality, can sexually assault another person, including a man. Being gay does not make a person unable to control themselves or more likely to sexually assault those around them, in their units. IF that is what they believe then it is that wrong belief that needs to go away, because that is the main issue. A secondary issue would be ensuring that sexual assaults of any kind, no matter the sex or sexuality of the victim or perpetrator, is dealt with to the fullest extent of military law. Again, sexual assault is still a crime, and always has been in the military. Nothing about putting DADT in place, nor repealing it to allow gays to serve openly changed this.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Its odd that you know the episodes by heart, but then again my little sister and I would argue over who got to watch what, especially on Friday nights. I always wanted to watch macgyver, she'd fight me all she could-her heart out (and my little bro-the "swing voter", on occasion) to watch Full house.

    Do you think that the incidence you cite has more to do with making a comment on SSM and "nontraditional" families, or the characters desire to not make the little girl feel out of place and loved? For the record, I like the show-still do.
    Actually, it had to do with trying to fool the teacher who questioned why they were all there, each meeting her one at a time (I actually just watched the episode again, since posting the last post on this subject, figured it was as good a time as any to watch the series again).

    The fact remains though that they were a "nontraditional family" and there were several "relatively tame" innuendos made in that series that are only caught onto as adults. Like Jesse trying to help Joey become more "badass" and telling Joey after they climbed off his bike that he needed to let go or he, Jesse, would have some explaining to do to his own parents.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    We have 5000+ crewmembers on a carrier. Most departments can pull 5-6 section duty in liberty ports, some do.

    And the other stuff happens too and is completely ignored to rant about women getting pregnant on ships. It is no more a problem than things men do on ships, including hazing each other or playing "quick draw", ending up with one of them shot. The military has had women in it for quite a while, much longer than either of us have been around.

    As for your buddy, either he or you are misconstruing where the destruction of morale is actually coming from. Again, any person, of any sexuality, can sexually assault another person, including a man. Being gay does not make a person unable to control themselves or more likely to sexually assault those around them, in their units. IF that is what they believe then it is that wrong belief that needs to go away, because that is the main issue. A secondary issue would be ensuring that sexual assaults of any kind, no matter the sex or sexuality of the victim or perpetrator, is dealt with to the fullest extent of military law. Again, sexual assault is still a crime, and always has been in the military. Nothing about putting DADT in place, nor repealing it to allow gays to serve openly changed this.
    Im not denying that men do anything-last I checked it takes two to tango. Im a man-I know men. Im saying its a real problem.
    I also know that a man, in the front lines in a war, had his sense of morale destroyed as he was being shot at-because of DADT.

    Im a Paramedic-Im aware that things happen outside of whats in the paper. I suspect you know this as well.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, it had to do with trying to fool the teacher who questioned why they were all there, each meeting her one at a time (I actually just watched the episode again, since posting the last post on this subject, figured it was as good a time as any to watch the series again).

    The fact remains though that they were a "nontraditional family" and there were several "relatively tame" innuendos made in that series that are only caught onto as adults. Like Jesse trying to help Joey become more "badass" and telling Joey after they climbed off his bike that he needed to let go or he, Jesse, would have some explaining to do to his own parents.
    Not all non traditional families are equivalent. I appreciate the tame innuendos-its what allows us all to laugh, from kids to adults-see I love Lucy and the absolutely timeless radio from the 30's, 40's, and 50's and early TV just do it right. Its STILL funny, and STILL clever.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Religious freedom. Homosexuals hate it. But they'll just have to get used to it because it's a constitutional right. Indiana is within their rights to pass this law and homosexual are within their rights to throw a hissy fit, stomp their feet, call for political action, boycotts and anything short of physical aggression like eye scratching and hair pulling. Eventually, they'll wear themselves out and get over it. I'm surprised anyone considers this news.
    like we "got over" gay marriage bans? We will never stop fighting oppression. We've been doing it for 50+ years and more organized and united, with far more support, than ever

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    like we "got over" gay marriage bans? We will never stop fighting oppression. We've been doing it for 50+ years and more organized and united, with far more support, than ever
    You are just absolutely part of a movement, aren't you?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    The Indiana legislature has reportedly reached a consensus on amending the state's RFRA law and it will be reviewed by Gov. Pence today before a vote transpires. It is a compromise that will dispel some of the harsher criticisms of the law, but a compromise in which neither liberals nor conservatives will be totally happy. According to insiders, the compromise legislation specifies that the new religious freedom law cannot be used as a legal defense to discriminate against patrons based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.

    In Arkansas, Gov. Hutchinson asked for the state's RFRA law to be recalled and amended. By a 26-6 vote, the state Senate on Wednesday approved a bill that more closely resembles the federal RFRA law. The state House is scheduled to debate and vote on the amended measure today. It is felt that forming a legislative consensus in Arkansas will be more difficult than in Indiana.

    Arkansas senator Bart Hester, who presented the original bill in his chamber told reporters: "The Arkansas RFRA did not mirror the federal RFRA law. That was intentional."


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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