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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #3041
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because it was government mandate that set up those barriers to begin with. The very applications to join the military asked "Are you homosexual?". If you answered "yes", you were denied entry into the military. With DADT, the form became a page 13 that actually still required you to sort of lie if you had same sex attractions. It didn't ask if you were homosexual, but required you to initial and sign that you understood that having homosexual attractions in the military could get you kicked out if you acted on those attractions or openly admitted to such attractions on any official forms. I actually signed this upon my enlistment in the Navy, and have a copy of it.

    Optimal, is and always will be a subjective term.

    There have been cases (one major one I know of) where a group of males sexually assaulted their male LPO because they hated the guy. Everyone in the incident, the victim and the perpetrators, were straight, had girl friends/wives. Sexual assault is about power, not attraction, which is why we hear about sexual assaults happening so often to elderly people, because they offer an "easy" target to those types of people. There are no actual "unintended consequences" to allowing homosexuals to serve openly. Hell, your own story proves this since it would have been before the DADT repeal. It was because of a single sick person, not a whole sexual orientation of people, that your friend was sexually assaulted. Some of the most horrific male on male sexual assaults have been heterosexual male(s) on heterosexual male.
    But the fact that a "solution" caused the unintended morale drop in a front line combat unit in the opening days of a war proves my point doesn't it?

    You served in the navy (thanks for that) I have friends who did/do as well, and I hear about the drama and pregnancies occurring while at sea. In some cases its a significant threat to military readiness because now the military has to rotate people, often in the middle of a deployment.

  2. #3042
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Pence is doing what many other states have done, signing into law something first done by the federal govt, in keeping with the views of the people of his state.

    then why is the IN law fundamentally and grossly different than the federal law?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    then why is the IN law fundamentally and grossly different than the federal law?
    Its largely similar, with a few differences you disagree with. In any case its what the citizens of Indiana want.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Its largely similar, with a few differences you disagree with. In any case its what the citizens of Indiana want.
    "few" lmao. I already linked you more than a few.

    your ostrich aside


    the gay ones want the law?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ah. Good ole Stephanopolous doing what he does. As I recall, he was the one who tried to insert birth control into the last Republican primary as well.

    And some neat selective editing, as well
    Yeah...it was just a short clip off you tube. I could probably find the whole thing and post it, but really who is going to sit and watch a 15 minute link. I thought the editing was a little annoying myself...be that as it may....it does bring home the issue and that is....Pence is either lying....or did a really poor job in this interview. I'm not sure which. I believe it is the former because there would be no need to change the law if it didn't do what the critics say that it does. And it would explain why he refused to answer the question....because he knew the answer....and knew it wasn't going to play out well for what he was trying to do.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    "few" lmao. I already linked you more than a few.

    your ostrich aside


    the gay ones want the law?
    Last in a democracy individuals dont get to decide what the law is.

    Im in California, suffice to say Im used to it.

  7. #3047
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    One need not hide behind "religion", religious freedom guaranteed in the 1st amendment. What on earth could be wrong with the courts considering religious objections to participating in events that one finds objectionable to ones conscience in view of their sincere religious beliefs? That is a principal reason why the religious migrated to the colonies in the first place.

    Secondly I find your line of questioning telling. You asked me WWJD, as if this law is about Christians against gays. It isn't, it's about all religions and its about any government oppression directed at the religious.

    Do you think all religious have an obligation to agree with views espoused by government officials?
    Do you support government directing religious practice?
    Do you support government criminalizing the views of the religious?

    Answer Please
    The difference is....you don't see other religions trying to use the law as a shield to practice their bigotry. It is the radical Christian fundamentalists who are trying to politicize the law to allow their discrimination.

    In answer to your questions:
    1. I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. I would say that I think religions are free to have their own beliefs and preach their own beliefs even if in opposition to the government. They are, however, obligated to abide by the laws. They can't use their religion to write their own rules.
    2. No. Government should stay out of religion and religion should stay out of government. People should be able to practice any religion in their homes and in their churches and even in the public arena when it does not infringe upon the rights of others.
    3. Criminalizing the views of the religious? I don't see anyone doing that. I guess I would only support that if the religion was involved in something like animal sacrifice or other illegal activities. I do support the right of the government to enforce anti-discrimination laws. A business owner should not be able to turn about blacks because he doesn't like black people or mexicans or gays or anyone else. They don't have to open a business. If they do....they have to abide by the laws of this land.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    We had three men raising three little girls on "Full House", even claiming in either the 2nd or 3rd episode to each be Stephanie's father. .
    WTF? I could not let this go. The "three men" raising "three little girls" were their widowed father, his dead wife's brother, and his childhood best friend. Not only did the childhood best friend never at ANY time claim to be father to any of those girls, including Stephanie - one of them WAS her father, and the other one would have had to impregnate his sister in order to be her father, so no, he never claimed it either. The show had nothing - zero - to do with sexuality at all - including incest, which you implied here. It was as pure and non-sexual as any show could be and still remain popular.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Its largely similar, with a few differences you disagree with. In any case its what the citizens of Indiana want.
    it might be what the citizens want, but it might not.

    our system isn't a direct democracy, so we can't concretely say the collective wants it.

    but when it comes to rights, we shouldn't be letting a group vote decide anyway

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The law didn't have time to come into effect. The American people wouldn't stand for it.
    So I take it you don't have any violations, and I'm speaking of things that happened previously. None.

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