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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    What reason is there to believe that will always happen?
    Because there has yet to be a case where it hasn't, when applied to public accommodations. Sorry for not being specific.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Here is a list of States with Religious Freedom Restoration Acts...

    Religious Freedom Restoration Act perils | Professor Marci A. Hamilton | States


    AZ, FL, IL, LA, SC, TX standard state RFRA
    AL, CT would have deleted or deletes “substantial” from substantial burden
    RI, NM, MO removed “substantial burden” and replaced with restrict
    ID, KS, KY, OK, PA, TN, VA adds to government’s burden: clear and convincing evidence
    MS expands to include suits between private parties
    MS applies to businesses
    MS works against homosexuals or same-sex couples


    Didn't the governor of Connecticut just ban travel to IA? But wait...

    Connecticut gov imposes travel ban over Indiana

    Thay have the same law! LOL!

    Libs, you have a lot of States you can't got to now. You better get this sorted out!
    Not.the.same.law.

    Gosh, this gets tiring to have to repeat to people who keep popping in, thinking they are saying something that hasn't been discussed about 1,000 times now.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Here is a list of States with Religious Freedom Restoration Acts...

    Religious Freedom Restoration Act perils | Professor Marci A. Hamilton | States


    AZ, FL, IL, LA, SC, TX standard state RFRA
    AL, CT would have deleted or deletes “substantial” from substantial burden
    RI, NM, MO removed “substantial burden” and replaced with restrict
    ID, KS, KY, OK, PA, TN, VA adds to government’s burden: clear and convincing evidence
    MS expands to include suits between private parties
    MS applies to businesses
    MS works against homosexuals or same-sex couples


    Didn't the governor of Connecticut just ban travel to IA? But wait...

    Connecticut gov imposes travel ban over Indiana

    Thay have the same law! LOL!

    Libs, you have a lot of States you can't got to now. You better get this sorted out!



    You Quit Thinking RIGHT NOW!
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    Not.the.same.law.
    Literally. The. Same. Law. With. Minor. Edits. As. Delineated.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers


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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Literally. The. Same. Law. With. Minor. Edits. As. Delineated.
    No.


    ...

    Important distinctions.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Literally. The. Same. Law. With. Minor. Edits. As. Delineated.
    Good morning.
    Are there not major differences between the Fed RFRA and State laws? And not all edits are minor.
    From what I have seen there is.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJames3000 View Post
    You need to revisit the chain of association... you only insisted you were a Trump-supporter after you figured out that made you a pederast as well. If I were you. I'd be more discreet about it... but I guess it's your dime.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    Not.the.same.law.

    Gosh, this gets tiring to have to repeat to people who keep popping in, thinking they are saying something that hasn't been discussed about 1,000 times now.
    According to the Indy Star, the 3 ways it different than others are actually pretty benign.

    * Adding for-profit companies is in line with the Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision
    * The "likely to be burdened" is for injunctions only
    * non-government party cases is for civil suits, which still need to be argued before a judge.

    In all ways, these additions don't equate to allowing discrimination anymore than the Federal law, or the other 30 States that have the law or case law to support it.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    No.
    ...
    Important distinctions.
    Feel free to lay them out.


    What I've seen thus far:

    1. The Federal version was about minorities

    No, it protects the religious freedoms of all Americans. Your inalienable rights are not reduced because of your identity.


    2. The Federal Version wasn't about Christians and Gays

    Which is irrelevant, given that the category of "Americans" includes "Christians and Gays"


    3. The Federal Version didn't apply to private businesses

    Actually it didn't say one way or the other on whether or not it did, however, four federal courts and the Obama Administration have all found and argued that it does.




    So..... lay it out for us.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-01-15 at 11:50 AM.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Conscientious objector has an actual definition, and it has to do with refusal to bear arms in a military conflict due to their beliefs (doesn't have to be religious based, at least not here in the US). It is not simply someone who objects on the basis of religious beliefs.

    Conscientious objector | Define Conscientious objector at Dictionary.com

    And I've never had any issue with conscientious objectors, but that is a whole different topic.
    Actually it is germane to this issue. It has been recognized (at least since the 19th century) that to force a person to act, or directly contribute to, what that person considers to be a deeply immoral act, such as fighting in a war, is wrong. Apparently, some believe that while a person may opt out of fighting for his country, he/she cannot be allowed to opt out of making a particular cupcake for a gay marriage.

    Really? There is no 'compelling state interest' in universal conscription for the defense of a nation in war, BUT there is in universal conscription of bakers and cup-cakes?

    This issue has become absurd. This is not Little Rock circa 1950, and lunatic hair pulling over public accommodations is WAY out of proportion to real discrimination.

    If you are referring the photographer, the "state" did not put her out of business, as you claim. She chose to do something else, I'm assuming, since I can't find anything about her or her business besides the case. It may be that other forces put her out of business or her fight against the ruling cost her too much (although most of those lawyers defending rights will work either pro bono or are paid by a fund of donations). She was only required to pay about $7000 to the other woman/couple for their lawyer, and to agree not to discriminate. If she couldn't agree to that, which is a basic agreement when it comes to actually operating a business, a basic law, then she chose to be out of business. The state did not force her.
    The state did force her to either violate her religious beliefs and actively support gay marriage OR give up some or all of her business (such as giving up wedding photography in order to avoid another fine).

    I don't support conscription for war, let alone conscription for wedding cupcakes.
    Last edited by maxparrish; 04-01-15 at 12:12 PM.

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