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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Why does the law need to be changed then? If your side is telling the truth....there is no need for changes or any other kind of "clarification". Sorry...but use your head.
    My side? You mean basic logic and application of laws?

    Like stated before, anti-discrimination laws will always trump RFRA accommodations. The clarification, like I told you in the other thread, is to calm down the morons.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    My side? You mean basic logic and application of laws?

    Like stated before, anti-discrimination laws will always trump RFRA accommodations. The clarification, like I told you in the other thread, is to calm down the morons.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Acceptance is support. [and it's exactly what they 'claim' to want] But you're right, most are too emotionally involved with the subject to ever change their minds.
    OK, but you accept and therefore "support" sinners of all stripes. We all do, at least in how we interact with the world. One easy example are single parents with children born out of wedlock. Not only does society accept them, we provide them tax benefits. There is no law preventing a cheating husband from dumping his wife and marrying his mistress. Newt did it twice. You may not approve of his choices, but there is no push to make what he did ILLEGAL. We all accept divorce, despite the vows many of us make. Our society celebrates raw greed and selfishness, so long as it's tied to business. You accept atheists or agnostics in that I doubt if you even bother to inquire about the spiritual health of them when you're on the operating room table. And even if you grill your retailers and service providers and only do business with the righteous, society demands nothing in that regard. And certainly the non-believers or fake believers all get the same access to the rights and obligations of marriage as the devout and "true" (versus the "in name only") Christians. No one inquires about that when the marriage license is signed.

    Point is I don't think gays are asking for your spiritual blessing on their lifestyle any more than the agnostics or atheists are, nor am I. My beliefs on homosexuality are the last thing on the list of things to worry about come judgment day. If that's at the top of yours, or in the top tier, great. Your life, your beliefs, your choice. I can respect those beliefs and reject them same way I respect but reject Islam or Buddhism.

    But if you start tying government benefits to how well a person lives his or her life in accordance with your interpretation of the Bible, you'll find that those efforts will be overwhelmingly rejected. But when we do the same to gay couples, they're supposed to accept that without a peep of protest. So when you say that acceptance is all they "claim" (whatever that means) to want, it's not your spiritual "acceptance" just that they be treated like adulterers, the greedy, the divorced, the liars, the non-believers, etc. who (e.g.) can all line up and get a marriage license.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Obviously....you still have your blinders on. I can't help you if you refuse to even see the most basic things. Sorry dude.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Nope, the objection is to the people involved in that event. They have no objection to the actual event by itself. They sell wedding cakes. In fact, the cake wasn't even being used at an actual wedding, but rather after the fact, in celebration of the union.
    Nope, the objection is to the activity. They did not refuse to make the cake because the person was gay. They refused to make a cake for an ACTIVTY that they found objectionable. For all they knew, the person ordering the cake was straight. So the customer wasn't refused service based upon their particular protected status.

    It depends on whether or not you provide those services to others but refuse to certain groups based on classifications of those people protected by the law.

    For example, you cannot agree to provide a cake for a "pot legalization" party/rally for everyone except Mormons, because your beliefs go against contributing to other people breaking what you believe to be their religious tenets/restrictions. You couldn't agree to sell a cake for a Republican candidate to anyone except gay Republicans, at least not in places that include sexual orientation/sexuality as protected class. You can't refuse to provide services to a Planned Parenthood party/event, unless it included a certain percentage of black people.

    The bakers all provided wedding cakes. They were refusing service based on the people involved in the event, not the actual event.
    So if the person ordering the cake for the gay wedding was straight, there would be no discrimination.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Obviously....you still have your blinders on. I can't help you if you refuse to even see the most basic things. Sorry dude.
    And I can't help you, since you won't listen to basic legal logic. Take care.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Here is a list of States with Religious Freedom Restoration Acts...

    Religious Freedom Restoration Act perils | Professor Marci A. Hamilton | States


    AZ, FL, IL, LA, SC, TX standard state RFRA
    AL, CT would have deleted or deletes “substantial” from substantial burden
    RI, NM, MO removed “substantial burden” and replaced with restrict
    ID, KS, KY, OK, PA, TN, VA adds to government’s burden: clear and convincing evidence
    MS expands to include suits between private parties
    MS applies to businesses
    MS works against homosexuals or same-sex couples


    Didn't the governor of Connecticut just ban travel to IA? But wait...

    Connecticut gov imposes travel ban over Indiana

    Thay have the same law! LOL!

    Libs, you have a lot of States you can't got to now. You better get this sorted out!
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Like stated before, anti-discrimination laws will always trump RFRA accommodations.
    What reason is there to believe that will always happen?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Why does the law need to be changed then?
    SCOTUS declared that the federal law narrowly pre-empted State and Local authorities when it attempted to limit their actions. It is therefore incumbent upon states to pass the same or similar language if they wish to ensure their citizens rights remain protected.

    If your side is telling the truth....there is no need for changes or any other kind of "clarification"
    legally there isn't. Politically there is, due to the hyperbolic hysteria going on. Hopefully then blood pressures will come down, people will pull their skirts off their heads, folks will take an actual rational look at what it means to apply a strict scrutiny standard, and the self-aware liberals will feel a bit embarrassed about the whole thing, while the majority will simply either pretend it never happened, or refuse to look at the material.

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