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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    It's hard to believe, but these Neanderthals actually believe that. No right is more sacred to them than property rights.
    Yeah i used to have a modicum of respect for libertarians, but no more

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Yeah i used to have a modicum of respect for libertarians, but no more
    better late, than never.
    .

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    You could just cut to the chase and say: I support bigots and people who discriminate against people the basis of their race, sex, national origin, religion, etc...
    nah most of these only support discrimination against LGBT. They almost always dodge questions about repealing the civil rights act.

    A few others will admit they hate LGBT only, when it comes to the "principle" of denying service - look at clownboy's response for instance

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    See the cases of the baker and photographer forced out of business. What is the eventual outcome of a Christian merchant who stands on his beliefs and refuses over and over to provide products or services for homosexual weddings?
    Show that they were forced out of business. The bakers are still running businesses.

    MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP | great cakes since 1993 | 303.763.5754

    Home - Sweet Cakes

    This one above lost their storefront shop due to loss of business. That is a market force, nothing to do with the government. They could have not faced fines at all, a court case at all, and they would have still been in the same position. You cannot force people to buy from other people.

    I can't actually find any information about what happened to the photographer. She had to pay about $7000 in attorney's fees. That was pretty much it, and agree not to discriminate. The SCOTUS refused to hear her case. I can't find any information about her being "forced" out of business. It is possible that people refused to purchase her services, but once again, are you going to force people to use her rather than another photographer?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    How often does that San Francisco company send people to Indiana? This is just nothing. Other companies will gladly pick up their customers in Indiana.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    So now your premise is that despite them being longtime customers, (and gay), only now when a wedding cake was requested did the bakery suddenly decide to discriminate against the couple?

    Thats makes sense.
    Yes, although I would say that the information I have does not say that either couple was actually "frequent customers". The mother of one of the gay men said that they heard about the shop through their planner, and one of the lesbians had picked up her mother's birthday cake from the other shop a year or more before. But this still comes down to they, the bakers, didn't feel the couples were "worthy", the "right kind of couple" for a wedding, for marriage. This is no different than if someone did the same thing to an interracial or interfaith couple.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    Well, you're entitled to your own silly opinions.
    yes, yes i am.... and you're entitled to support idiocy like boycotting an entire state over fear of a bogeyman.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    No, they actually saw a threat to their businesses and their employees.

    Another person at a place I also post at did a very good job of explaining it:

    "Really, lets see, lets walk you through how a corporation could bolt.

    I am a design sheet metal company specializing in high end artistic sheet metal fabrication. I have a staff of 100 employees, 10 of my employees happen to be gay. I'm going to expand my business and I'm looking for States that have attributes: low taxes, good labor pool, cheap cost of living, decent living standards...

    oh, wait a minute. If I move my business to Indiana, my 10 gay employees are going to face State Sanctioned discrimination. Realtors can legally refuse to sell them a house, Apartment owners can refuse to lease to them, restaurants can legally refuse to serve them food. In fact, because I harbor these "gays" my business can legally be discriminated against. Suppliers in Indiana can legally choose to not sell to me.

    So why would I move my Business to Indiana? I guess I could move then cross my fingers and "hope" no one discriminates against my business or my employees because if they do I'd have no recourse under Indiana law."
    Except you aren't a design sheet metal company with a staff of 100, 10 of which are gay, are you?

    NONE of this logic works as this is NOT the priority of companies.

    IN FACT, companies flocked to the South when discrimination against blacks were rampant and essentially legal - and nearly all those companies had black employees. Normal companies are not focused on whether their employees can find a good restaurant or are treated fairly in society. That's not what companies are about.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Yeah i used to have a modicum of respect for libertarians, but no more
    Um ouch...not all libertarians are the same. There are those who place property as equivalent to liberty and those who view property as antithetical of liberty. Quite a broad spectrum, but the basis of libertarian ideology is liberty, and personal choice and responsibility in particular.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    That's an event. Thanks for that admission. And that the couple had purchased products there before, it obviously has nothing to do with the persons
    Actually, there is little information suggesting that these couples, either of them, had actually frequently purchased products from either shop before. The only confirmed purchase we know of was actually the one lesbian woman (no mention of her identifying herself either directly or indirectly as a lesbian) picked up a cake from the bakery for her mother at least a year prior.

    And no, it was not the "event". The bakery made wedding cakes. It was the sexes/sexual orientations of the people involved in the event that was the problem, that was the reason for the discrimination. That is what makes it illegal, just as much as if the people were refused because they were an interracial couple getting married ("we don't make interracial wedding cakes") or an interfaith couple getting married ("we don't agree with interfaith weddings").
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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