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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They should not be protected from a lawsuit at all. Their religious views are their personal choice. They are no different than a person who thinks women should never handle money because they are likely to spend it or a black person is always going to try to steal something so they don't deserve service. Doesn't matter where the beliefs originate, a person still chooses to hold those beliefs.

    And there is no "hypocrisy" here. The situations are not similar, let alone the same. No one is being illegally discriminated against by being denied a request to write something hateful on a cake, something the baker does not wish to write on the cake. That was the reason for the denial of service, unlike the other cases, where denial of service was admitted to being because the people requesting service were of the same sex, were gay.
    How is being against gay marriage hateful? Obama held that view (which was actually more "hateful" than Dick Cheney's) until 2 years ago.
    Or do you think anyone who disagrees is hateful?

    Face it you guys will stop at nothing to justify your own views, and dismiss those of others as being hateful and irrational as it suits you-thats all.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    They look for the most compelling case, often setting things up. Im reminded of the Fluck case. Make no mistake the ACLU and other lefty groups are out there looking for this type of thing every day, seeking to find cases that will make it to the supreme court.
    Your evidence of this? Thought so.....pulled from your arse.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Why is ok in your eyes for a bigot to refuse to serve a black person in his restaurant because black people "offend him"?
    Still playing the race card when the gay card isn't working?
    Everyone has the right to sue if they find they have been discriminated against. Everyone is suing everyone. First we had the gay marriage activists suing small business owners over their religious convictions. Now we have activists suing gay bakers for denying them an anti-gay cake. We have businesses having to go all the way to the Supremes to keep from having their religious freedoms violated due to Obamacare. There are folks in the medical field suing for the right to not have to perform abortions in hospitals and clinics because it is against their religious conscience. There's a lot of folks engaged in legal battles over religious freedom or any violation to the First Amendment.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You are grasping at straw yet again. This was discrimination, based on the views of someone because of their view on gay marriage.
    We both know this, but you defend it.
    Prove it. You can't. The guy was denied service for the content of the cake. He could have told them all day "I don't approve of gay marriage", then ordered a cookie or cake that had nothing written on it or "happy birthday" or been set up for him to write on it. Instead, he requested a cake that they did not want to make, a cake with writing on it that they deemed "offensive", hateful. There is no protection there for someone to be given a service the person doesn't offer. If they had refused to sell him a cake at all, then he would possibly have a case, depending on how they explained their refusal. However, they didn't do that. And his request is absolutely not the same as someone asking for a cake that the baker does make and being refused because of a protected classification.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Your evidence of this? Thought so.....pulled from your arse.
    https://acluidaho.org/our-work/in-the-courts/

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Are you talking about the real cases, at least two in different states, where the same sex couples went to really buy a cake for their same sex marriage/celebration of their marriage, and were denied service once the bakers found out they were a same sex couple wanting a wedding cake?

    Oregon ruling really takes the cake -- Christian bakery guilty of violating civil rights of lesbian couple | Fox News

    Masterpiece Cakeshop, Colorado Bakery, Agrees To 'Dog Wedding' Cake Despite Turning Away Gays

    No one was being "set up" here. They didn't have to be. The owners openly admitted that not only did they deny service to these couples, at least one of them, if not both, have denied service to same sex couples prior to these incidents. One of the shops closed its storefront business, and now works from home, taking orders online. The other claims to not sell wedding cakes anymore, but still advertises that he does on his website. And there are many comments on Yelp that show that he did in fact discriminate against other couples before this one stood up for themselves and reported him/sued him.
    And that's the goal, to force Christian merchants out of the marketplace

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    How is being against gay marriage hateful? Obama held that view (which was actually more "hateful" than Dick Cheney's) until 2 years ago.
    Or do you think anyone who disagrees is hateful?

    Face it you guys will stop at nothing to justify your own views, and dismiss those of others as being hateful and irrational as it suits you-thats all.
    The bakeries, which were targeted because the owners and/or majority of the staff is gay, felt it was hateful. Saying "gay marriage is wrong" can easily be seen as hateful, especially if it is being placed on a cake that is being eaten at a "pro-traditional marriage" event/celebration.

    And who cares if Obama once held that view. Do you think that all same sex marriage/gay rights supporters love Obama and completely support him, voted for him in the Presidential elections simply because he currently supports same sex marriage?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Still playing the race card when the gay card isn't working?
    Everyone has the right to sue if they find they have been discriminated against. Everyone is suing everyone. First we had the gay marriage activists suing small business owners over their religious convictions. Now we have activists suing gay bakers for denying them an anti-gay cake. We have businesses having to go all the way to the Supremes to keep from having their religious freedoms violated due to Obamacare. There are folks in the medical field suing for the right to not have to perform abortions in hospitals and clinics because it is against their religious conscience. There's a lot of folks engaged in legal battles over religious freedom or any violation to the First Amendment.

    Its not the "race card". Why do you think its ok for the white restaurant owner to refuse to serve blacks because he thinks they are "icky".

    What you are failing to recognize is that bigotry in the name of religion is still bigotry. You can't use your religion as a shield to have free reign to discriminate against people you don't like. It didn't work for the white bigots in the 50's and 60's and it won't work for the right-wingnuts in 2015. This country recognizes everyone's right to practice their religion. However, that does not mean that you can manipulate your religion to write your own rules about who you want to discriminate against and who you don't.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    And that's the goal, to force Christian merchants out of the marketplace
    LOL!!

    Please prove this ridiculous assertion. No one cares if Christians own businesses. What people do care about is if anyone, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Mormon, Hindu, atheist, whoever tries to justify discrimination in their open-to-the-public business with "my beliefs are that this type of person is wrong, sinning, etc.".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Prove it. You can't. The guy was denied service for the content of the cake. He could have told them all day "I don't approve of gay marriage", then ordered a cookie or cake that had nothing written on it or "happy birthday" or been set up for him to write on it. Instead, he requested a cake that they did not want to make, a cake with writing on it that they deemed "offensive", hateful. There is no protection there for someone to be given a service the person doesn't offer. If they had refused to sell him a cake at all, then he would possibly have a case, depending on how they explained their refusal. However, they didn't do that. And his request is absolutely not the same as someone asking for a cake that the baker does make and being refused because of a protected classification.
    Some people just hung up or said no. He could easily make another video to jump through your hoops and a similar outcome would be found.

    Perhaps there's an atheist out there trolling gay bakeries right now saying he wants a wedding cake that says gay marriage is wrong. He didn't choose to be straight, so it will no doubt be a travesty of justice that you will line up behind-you know, to be consistent.

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