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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    what would happen if a Muslim or Jewish bakery refused to make a cake for a gay wedding? one thing I know for certain: the liberal "outrage"(remember when it took EFFORT to be outraged? those were the days) would not be nearly as hyperbolic. The gays have a problem with the EVIL CHRISTIANS only, for reasons only a certified psychiatrist could explain.
    Probably wouldn't take a psychologist. I'm not one and the "problem" gays have with some small number of vocal, politically active Christians is they want to enshrine their religious beliefs in the law, and have fought for any expansion of civil rights for the LGBT community. In other words, this small but powerful sliver of the Christian community is working directly opposed to the self interest of gays. So their "problem" is no more complicated than the problem the NRA crowd has with gun control advocates.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    Many of Jesus's teachings in the New Testament are 180 degrees from what's in the Old Testament.
    Only to those who don't understand the whole Bible and the whole teaching

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Barely mentioned?

    https://carm.org/bible-homosexuality

    Fortunately if you chose to quit supporting it [or practicing it if that were the case] you would be forgiven and wouldn't have to worry about that facet at all.
    Yeah, barely mentioned. It's a long book, and you've cited a handful of passages. But OK, we're not going to change each others' mind on the matter.

    I'll just add that I don't "support" homosexuality. I accept it as a given, something that makes a person who he or she IS, who they love. I don't judge them for who they love any more than I judge you or anyone else. It's just part of who they are.

    One more edit - it can be boiled down to this, really - I made no choice, and did nothing good or bad by BEING a heterosexual. It's just part of who I AM. Similarly, gays had no choice in who they ARE, and that preference about who they love is, identically, neither good nor bad. It's no more good or bad than their brown hair or blue eyes or height of 5'9". To believe otherwise would be to damn them for something they had no part in choosing - same as damning them for being black or short or with big ears. The only other alternative is to expect gays to live a life alone, without intimacy. I can't wish that on anyone because I know how special my relationship with my wife is, and how much that intimate relationship adds to my life. It would be cruel to DEMAND that others with a different orientation live a live alone.
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-31-15 at 04:03 PM.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    However as Christ demonstrated it is COMPLETELY appropriate to expect that the sinner go forth and sin no more. You cant find ANYWHERE were Christ said, hey...man...its cool...change that money in the temple. Or hey...you know what..go forth...and what is your Saturday special for hummers? No...he said...go forth...and sin no more.

    Sin no more.

    If you are going to KEEP bringing Christ into this argument as your standard bearer you are goign to have to deal with the TOTALITY of his comment...not just the parts you like.

    I dont differentiate between 'sins'. I dont define sins. Its not my place. Point of fact...I dont think the rules given to us were given as punishment or rule AGAINST sin. Your lifestyle choice is not a sin against me and to be direct...I think the cake baker is silly for turning the business away. That being said...I respect his or her right to do so, legally, and without government intervention. If you and the rest of the guys want to gather up a boycott and shriek and protest...be my guess. Odds are...all you will do is create an environment where that business gets a GREATER outpouring of support and love because frankly...people are tired of your bull****.
    No....the Bull **** that people are tired of is people who still think it is ok to discriminate in this country. That is why Indiana is facing the wrath of the nation. Pence is such an idiot, he thought he could pass this through without there being any outcry. Maybe in 1940 but not in 2015. In 2015 people in this country are tired of the bigots and people who preach hate. So now what we are seeing is people trying to hide behind religion and use it as a shield to implement their bigotry. Sorry...but America saw right through this ploy and isn't buying it.

    People who invoke the name of Christ and seek to wrap themselves in his name are using his name in vain. Anyone who has even studied the life of the man for more than 5 minutes knows full well that he would never condone this kind of activity. I know the "totality of his comments" and I know that Christ never preached hatred and never preached shunning someone because you find them "icky". The vast majority of Christ's teaching were about being a good person, loving your neighbor, treating people with dignity and respect, charity and service. Christ was less concerned with pointing his fingers at the "sinners" and more about pointing his finger at the Pharisees who would stand on the corner and pray loudly in public so that others will look upon them. Today's "Christians" are the Pharisees of modern times. They are more concerned about politics and perverting his name than they are about striving to emulate any of his life/teachings.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Ok liberals, why are anti-discrimination laws needed if the private sector is rejecting discrimination? Please explain to me exactly why your laws are justified when your entire premise doesn't seem to exist to any meaningful level. I'm sorry, but arguing that the private sector is rejecting discrimination all on it's own and then arguing that the private sector would not reject discrimination without law makes no sense.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    No....the Bull **** that people are tired of is people who still think it is ok to discriminate in this country. That is why Indiana is facing the wrath of the nation. Pence is such an idiot, he thought he could pass this through without there being any outcry. Maybe in 1940 but not in 2015. In 2015 people in this country are tired of the bigots and people who preach hate. So now what we are seeing is people trying to hide behind religion and use it as a shield to implement their bigotry. Sorry...but America saw right through this ploy and isn't buying it.

    People who invoke the name of Christ and seek to wrap themselves in his name are using his name in vain. Anyone who has even studied the life of the man for more than 5 minutes knows full well that he would never condone this kind of activity. I know the "totality of his comments" and I know that Christ never preached hatred and never preached shunning someone because you find them "icky". The vast majority of Christ's teaching were about being a good person, loving your neighbor, treating people with dignity and respect, charity and service. Christ was less concerned with pointing his fingers at the "sinners" and more about pointing his finger at the Pharisees who would stand on the corner and pray loudly in public so that others will look upon them. Today's "Christians" are the Pharisees of modern times. They are more concerned about politics and perverting his name than they are about striving to emulate any of his life/teachings.
    I agree with much of that, but I don't think the problem is Christians or Christianity. I'm lucky enough to know a lot of extraordinary people, most of them Christian, who devote their lives to service, and the 'bigoted' wing that makes so much noise doesn't speak for them or their beliefs.

    So if you edited it, "Some of today's most vocal Christians in the political arena are the Pharisees of our times," I'd be all in with that... I think it's an important distinction, actually.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I agree with much of that, but I don't think the problem is Christians or Christianity. I'm lucky enough to know a lot of extraordinary people, most of them Christian, who devote their lives to service, and the 'bigoted' wing that makes so much noise doesn't speak for them or their beliefs.

    So if you edited it, "Some of today's most vocal Christians in the political arena are the Pharisees of our times," I'd be all in with that... I think it's an important distinction, actually.
    You are correct. I myself am Christian, but I refuse to label myself "Christian" because too many of the people who adopt the label have perverted his message for their political purposes. In my experiences, most good Christians rarely feel the need to let everyone know that they are "Christian" because they understand that the best way to get the message out is to live their lives according to the actual teachings of Christ. As they say....actions speak louder than words (Something that todays Pharisees do not comprehend).

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Ok liberals, why are anti-discrimination laws needed if the private sector is rejecting discrimination? Please explain to me exactly why your laws are justified when your entire premise doesn't seem to exist to any meaningful level. I'm sorry, but arguing that the private sector is rejecting discrimination all on it's own and then arguing that the private sector would not reject discrimination without law makes no sense.
    It isn't so much that they are NEEDED...but that we as an enlightened society DEMAND. We are sick and tired of the Bigots and their BS. This is why Indiana is facing the wrath of the nation.

    Sometimes you have to stand up for what is right.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Only to those who don't understand the whole Bible and the whole teaching
    Yeah I'm sure you follow the Old Testament word for word?

    You know you don't, it's not possible.
    "Big or small, I don't like rabbits. They always look like they're about to say something, but they never do."
    Raj Koothrappali

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It isn't so much that they are NEEDED...but that we as an enlightened society DEMAND. We are sick and tired of the Bigots and their BS. This is why Indiana is facing the wrath of the nation.
    So liberals are aware that discrimination is not accepted in the marketplace and that if anti-discrimination laws were to be repealed nothing bad would happen, but they demand them anyway? Ok??? I don't get it.

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