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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #2341
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin AJ From Post 1957 the Pro Gay Rights Attorney and Law professor explained it out as to why Indiana needed it.



    To further quell the left's hysteria over this law, here is a pro-gay rights law professor, Daniel O. Conkle, writing for USA Today on why Indiana needs RFRA. I am a supporter of gay rights, including same-sex marriage. But as an informed legal scholar, I also support the proposed Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). How can this be?


    The bill would establish a general legal standard, the "compelling interest" test, for evaluating laws and governmental practices that impose substantial burdens on the exercise of religion. This same test already governs federal law under the federal RFRA, which was signed into law by President Bill Clinton. And some 30 states have adopted the same standard, either under state-law RFRAs or as a matter of state constitutional law. Applying this test, a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that a Muslim prisoner was free to practice his faith by wearing a half-inch beard that posed no risk to prison security. Likewise, in a 2012 decision, a court ruled that the Pennsylvania RFRA protected the outreach ministry of a group of Philadelphia churches, ruling that the city could not bar them from feeding homeless individuals in the city parks. If the Indiana RFRA is adopted, this same general approach will govern religious freedom claims of all sorts, thus protecting religious believers of all faiths by granting them precisely the same consideration. But granting religious believers legal consideration does not mean that their religious objections will always be upheld.

    In any event, most religious freedom claims have nothing to do with same-sex marriage or discrimination. The proposed Indiana RFRA would provide valuable guidance to Indiana courts, directing them to balance religious freedom against competing interests under the same legal standard that applies throughout most of the land. It is anything but a "license to discriminate," and it should not be mischaracterized or dismissed on that basis......snip~
    Morning MMC

    well i can post links saying why its not needed and or why there should be an exclamation . . I asked you based on the logic you provided

    secondly anything that starts of as saying "lefts hysteria, rights hysteria etc i instantly cant take as objective, honest and non biased, why would I.
    Lastley theres nothign in there that actually tells me why these things are needed or as a christian since my rights are already fully protected by the constitution, anti-discrimination laws and many other things, if i lived in Indiana what would this bill do for me that those things dont already do?

    the legal standard already exists, the way the law is now is pretty clear for the most part
    and his claim that its anything but a license to discriminate has already been proven false by one simple example.

    before under illegal discrimination laws it was illegal for all to discriminate based on a defined criteria . . . .now you COULD possible illegal discriminate based on feelings and its not illegal anymore

    that in fact does seem like its a license to discriminate and if the argument is this doesnt change anything im again back to my original question, why is it actually needed.

    Theres nothing in the explanation above that says what it does for me as a chrsitian that isnt already done. The "guidance" isnt needed as its already clear cut, by desing this will make it more complected. Before the bill it was clear what illegal discrimination was . . . . now . . . theres great potential for us not to know.
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  2. #2342
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Admittedly not a scriptorian and one that has chapter and verse memorized, but were there a lot of verses where Jesus taught against the sin of prostitution? And yet...
    Go forth...and sin no more.
    What of the apostles? Did they teach on about sin? Was there mention of the sin of homosexuality?

    Again...non religious people like to trot out religion...when it suits them.
    You are assuming that I am "non-religious"....actually once again you are wrong. I have studied the life of Christ and try to live every day of my life in accordance with the example that he led. That is why it is disgusting to see the perversion of his name for the sake of politics.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  3. #2343
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Like I said....you guys have no answer to counter the fact that the higher educated one is correlates directly with the political spectrum of "liberal". So when you don't have an answer...your only reply is "Its those gosh darn liberal colleges them liberals are all attendin"
    Maybe you missed it so I'll say it again. Higher education means higher indoctrination, not higher intelligence

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    I actually agree with the sentiment of your objection, I just wanted you to see where the other poster's attitude on the subject was coming from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post

    Yes. All the words of the Bible are the words of Jesus
    I don't see that claim coming from anybody who knows about the old testament - besides you and Blemonds.

    In all of my short life, Blemonds is the first person I've ever seen or heard make that claim. So now you've supported it. Not sure that the scriptures you posted actually says that all the words in the bible or from Jesus. It just says that Jesus claimed he was with god or knew god prior to Abraham. What you're implying from your scriptures is related to a belief associated with Trinity. So be it. Personally, I don't really care what scriptures say that you choose to post. I'm not a subscriber.

    However, I'm pretty sure that one saying "Jesus" was the inspirer of everything written in the bible...is not going to be agreeable with everybody.

    So henceforth, every time someone says, "the bible was an inspiration of god - who actually penned the bible using man - I'll send'em your way for clarification. How's that?

  5. #2345
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    I am a Christian and I understand that the whole Bible is the teachings of Christ
    "Christian" in name only. Typical of those who love to wrap themselves in his name. You are the epitome of the Pharisees that Jesus often spoke of. Those who love to stand on the corner and pray loudly so that others may see them. Sad that you know almost nothing about the man who's name you take in vain.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #2346
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    1.)RFRA is needed to protect citizens from government laws that are not necessarily religious in nature, but significantly burden a religious practice. Indiana's law added additional protection from civil suits.
    2.)Does it offer carte blanche to do whatever you want in the name of religion? Not in the least bit, as it only provides you with defense option to be weighed by the courts.
    1.) what citzens are in danger of that when the constitution and nondiscrimination laws already do that
    2.) no not what ever a person wants but does it in fact offer the possible ablity to illegal discriminating based on feelings and not have it be illegal any more. Yes.

    so again i ask, My rights as a christian are already fully protected by the constitution, anti-discrimination laws and many other things, if i lived in Indiana what would this bill do for me that those things dont already do?

    before the bill i couldnt illegally discriminate and violate the rights of people using gender, race, sexual orientation religion etc etc
    before the bill people couldnt illegally discriminate against me and violate my rights using gender, race, sexual orientation religion etc etc

    after the bill, now the possibility exists
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  7. #2347
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Maybe you missed it so I'll say it again. Higher education means higher indoctrination, not higher intelligence
    Exactly what I said....when you have no answer.....blame it on "those gosh darn liberal colleges that be edumacating the libruls"
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You are assuming that I am "non-religious"....actually once again you are wrong. I have studied the life of Christ and try to live every day of my life in accordance with the example that he led. That is why it is disgusting to see the perversion of his name for the sake of politics.
    Really. You must really like the part where he says "pick and choose whichever parts of the bible that dont conflict with your lifestyle choices."

    The only perversion of his name can be seen on threads like this where people constantly try to trot out Christ as a weapon.

    Go forth...and sin no more. He loved the prostitute...he promoted love. But he didnt excuse the sinful behavior. Ever.

    Sin no more.

  9. #2349
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Really. You must really like the part where he says "pick and choose whichever parts of the bible that dont conflict with your lifestyle choices."

    The only perversion of his name can be seen on threads like this where people constantly try to trot out Christ as a weapon.

    Go forth...and sin no more. He loved the prostitute...he promoted love. But he didnt excuse the sinful behavior. Ever.

    Sin no more.
    Do you wanna show where Jesus spoke about homosexuality being a sin? Was it in the same place he spoke about the abomination of eating shellfish?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Neighboring Illinois has a RFRA law. But it also has a statewide law that prohibits discrimination based on gender-identity and sexual-orientation.

    Texas and Missouri have RFRA laws. But they have sections in their RFRA laws that prohibit discrimination based on gender-identity and sexual-orientation.

    Indiana has no such statewide/RFRA protections. Indiana legislators rejected such protections when deliberating the Indiana RFRA law.

    One has to ask ... why?
    I assume you're being rhetorical. The law was a bone tossed to the anti-SSM social conservative base Pence appeals to, but I'm pretty sure that was the point.

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