Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

Originally Posted by Hicup

Because unlike same sex marriage circumvention and legislation by way of the judiciary ala the 14th Amendment which guarantees civil rights to all and where marriage although religious in nature is not religious necessarily; religious association is quite a different thing, and is specific to the state of mind and covenant with anyone's God, independent from state interference. In other words, marriage is religious in nature only, but legally requires a license to procure, thus state direct involvement, however, a business owner has no such impediment under the law, where competing liberties are at odds.

It really comes down to that. States are exerting specific protections for competing liberties, and providing remedies in anticipation or preemption of challenges by gays, or anyone else that contradicts religions and conscientious objectors.

That about sums it up, and it only took 200 plus pages to get here.

You're all welcome.

Tim-

Originally Posted by DA60

I am 100% non-religious and 100% for gay/lesbian marriage.

BUT

I am 100% against the state telling private businesses who they can and cannot serve.

Assuming it is not a matter of life and death, I think a private business should be able to refuse anyone, for any reason...sex, race, height, hair color, what color your shirt is, ANYTHING.


And why a homosexual would want to go to a business (that is not a matter of life and death to use) where the owner has to be forced by law to serve them is totally beyond me.

Then the business should not expect anything from the government.

Originally Posted by roguenuke

My mother is Catholic as well, as was my grandmother. Guess who taught me that there was nothing wrong with homosexuality and that they should be allowed to marry? My mother and grandmother. My grandmother is the most devout to her faith that I have seen, having said prayers 4 hours a day, 7 days a week for as long as I knew her. (You didn't interrupt my grandmother's prayers.) Just because people have "literature" claiming something is a sin or say "my religion says" doesn't mean it isn't still their personal beliefs that lead them to do something like refusing to sell a cake for a same sex wedding.

That's all well and good, but others are not held to your grandmother's understanding of her religion. The Indiana law protects the freedoms and rights of those who disagree with her

Originally Posted by Taylor

When Jews visit restaurants, they're typically not trying to make some political statement out of it. These neo Nazis were not denied service simply because of their political beliefs, but because they wanted to "advertise" their beliefs in an establishment that was clearly offended by them. I believe the establishment even told them that they would have no problem serving them if they removed the swastikas.

Even still, the principle that a business open to the public serves the public is fairly straightforward and the benefits of that as a whole would seem to easily outweigh the harm in a few instances of a few businesses serving people they might REALLY not like a whole lot.

It's no different in my view than the ACLU defending the right of those idiots to march.

Originally Posted by Jack Hays

Do you think the more credible voices are those of the actual legislators? Or those making noise outside? Please don't confuse the two. You won't like it when that tactic is used against the left.

But the actual legislators were warned, were given chances to assuage critics, and didn't do it. And Pence embraced those voices when he invited them to the bill signing. They made their bed by trying to appease bigots. Not sorry they're paying a price for it.

Originally Posted by disneydude

WWJD?

He would say, "Go, and sin no more"

Originally Posted by disneydude

Not a non-response at all. Your dodge is noted. You post was simply playing the "Religious martyr" card. WWJD? Do you think that he would turn away the gay person or turn him away and then claim he was a martyr due to the backlash? If you don't know the answer, read about the man.

If history is a teacher, he would say "Hey!!! Dont hate on the gay guy!!!" and then he would turn to the gay guy and say "go forth...and sin no more..."