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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1981
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Really can't admit it when you and your supposed supports are wrong, can you?
    On the contrary, I've admitted error more times than I like. But I'm not wrong here.
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  2. #1982
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    He associated with sinners to try to get them to stop sinning.



    Jesus did not buy or sell the prostitute trashy clothes to help her business.Jesus did not help the tax collector find more ways to steal more money.Jesus did not help muggers get better weapons. Jesus did not buy burglars a set of lock picks to make it easier for them to rob homes. So I am pretty sure Jesus would not his followers preforming gay weddings, selling gay wedding cakes and etc seeing how those encourage/aid more sinning not less sinning.
    I get it! At the Sermon on the Mount Jesus made certain that porkers and fatasses didn't get any bread and made damned sure they didn't go back for seconds. That would have been enabling them to commit one of the 7 Deadly Sins, no? Why doesn't anyone ever mention that?

    I'm confused. According to you Christians in Indiana need a religious freedom law for the purpose of only practicing the parts of their religion they like. Christians in Indiana are not denying greedy people the right to purchase more crap they don't need, right? How about McMansions? Do Christian real estate agents refuse to sell people houses that people really don't need? You are telling me Indiana Christians support selling boats and vacation homes and diamond jewelry to people. Doesn't that directly contribute to the practice of envy? They don't have problems doing business and/or associating with prideful people either, huh? When fat people come rolling into a Christian owned restaurant in Indiana their business will not be refused...unless they are gay fat people.

    What do you want to bet that almost all the churches that support Indiana's religious freedom law so that they can deny doing business with gay people in the Lord's name have vending machines full of sugary drinks and sugar laden snacks? Promoting and enabling gluttony for Jesus? That's OK. Right?

    So we really aren't talking about the protection of a religion are we? We aren't even talking about most Christians. We are talking about a law that allows a small number of people practice pure hatred in the name of Christianity. I'd imagine most good Christians in Indiana feel raped.
    Last edited by Risky Thicket; 03-30-15 at 06:22 PM.










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  3. #1983
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Thanks for a non response to my post. I love wasted time.
    Not a non-response at all. Your dodge is noted. You post was simply playing the "Religious martyr" card. WWJD? Do you think that he would turn away the gay person or turn him away and then claim he was a martyr due to the backlash? If you don't know the answer, read about the man.

  4. #1984
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Judges make mistakes - lots of them, in fact. They let child molesters out to molest more children. They award adults millions of dollars in damages because they made stupid decisions that impacted them. And so on. I appreciate that there is a need for them but I don't approach things thinking "what would a judge do", because that could cause my eyeballs to fall out just thinking about it.
    Believe me, I understand this sentiment. One of my family members (an attorney) got on the bad side of a judge and could spend two years on a case, only to have the judge basically ignore the law. Yes, there's an appeal process, but the costs in time and money (and all of the problems that come when you run out of those,) are enormous.

    Unfortunately, judges do have the final say on what the law is, and we are forced to live with that.

    I think if we assume anyone can go before a judge and say "He wouldn't serve me!", our already cluttered judicial system will get clogged even more with stupid suits. That's another issue I have with all of this and that's why I keep thinking, right or wrong, it has to be all or nothing. Today we're talking about religious beliefs and gay people. Tomorrow it could be that something entirely different.
    Fortunately, this is largely a state issue, which means the potential is there for states to serve as testbeds for different solutions, and perhaps something will arise that better addresses the concerns of all residents.

    I think it important to understand that businesses do in fact have the right to serve anyone they choose, but the government is infringing on this right in its own interest. That is, there is no true right to be served at places of public accommodation, it is a legal right conferred in good faith. As such, I have little compassion for those (like the neo Nazis) who would use it as a tool to make some political point or basically just to piss people off. If it ever gets to the point where there's a lot of this "let's hire the gay caterer to provide food for our I Hate Gays party" or yes - demanding that the Christian baker make the cake for your wedding when there's a half dozen other bakeries in the immediate area - I would certainly understand a lot of people wanting to walk back some of these laws.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    The contradiction, despite the semantics, is obvious
    yes that lie keeps being repeated but yet the contradiction hasnt been pointed out. Very telling. Please in your next post point out the factual contradiction, thanks.

    I bet this request is dodged again.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 03-30-15 at 06:33 PM.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    There's actually no need for clarification, but the dishonest attacks and the gullible reporting of the story may force the state to take an unnecessary action for cosmetic purposes. Score one for the liars.
    Hooocoodanode that people would believe the well funded, coordinated, but apparently dishonest right wing anti-SSM supporters of the law making dishonest claims about what the law would do, or that legislators rejecting amendments that would clarify that the dishonest claims made by social conservatives were dishonest, could turn out badly, except all the people who urged the GOP to not pass the bill and for Pence to not sign it.

    Guess they should have listened. Also, not a good plan to invite the dishonest right wing anti-SSM bill supporters to the bill signing if you're trying to distance the bill from the anti-SSM efforts. Too bad. Crying crocodile tears over here for Pence and the GOP legislature for having to endure "vicious" attacks because they're idiots who ignored the warnings and pandered to anti-SSM bigots.

  7. #1987
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    That is some good defence, wrong though it is. Mr French claimed that gays were protected BEFORE passage of the RFRA bill in 1993.

    Why then are right wing controlled states passing their own versions of the RFRA if not in attempts to subvert the movement to preserve gay rights? Why are so many state legislators quite openly admitting they are supporting such laws because their intention is to allow discrimination?
    Because unlike same sex marriage circumvention and legislation by way of the judiciary ala the 14th Amendment which guarantees civil rights to all and where marriage although religious in nature is not religious necessarily; religious association is quite a different thing, and is specific to the state of mind and covenant with anyone's God, independent from state interference. In other words, marriage is religious in nature only, but legally requires a license to procure, thus state direct involvement, however, a business owner has no such impediment under the law, where competing liberties are at odds.

    It really comes down to that. States are exerting specific protections for competing liberties, and providing remedies in anticipation or preemption of challenges by gays, or anyone else that contradicts religions and conscientious objectors.

    That about sums it up, and it only took 200 plus pages to get here.

    You're all welcome.

    Tim-
    Last edited by Hicup; 03-30-15 at 06:42 PM.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I don't have any problem with that decision. There are obvious downsides for either result. As it is a small number of Jewish establishments will be forced to serve Nazi's, but all Jews in California have strong protection against being discriminated against, including by idiots like those Nazi's.
    When Jews visit restaurants, they're typically not trying to make some political statement out of it. These neo Nazis were not denied service simply because of their political beliefs, but because they wanted to "advertise" their beliefs in an establishment that was clearly offended by them. I believe the establishment even told them that they would have no problem serving them if they removed the swastikas.

  9. #1989
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    What's wrong is to tell a business he can't refuse service to someone for whatever reasons he chooses
    WWJD? Do you think Jesus would turn someone away because they were gay? What do you think Jesus would think of the person who turned someone away because they were black or gay or just because they thought the person was "icky"? "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren....ye have done it unto me".

  10. #1990
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Hooocoodanode that people would believe the well funded, coordinated, but apparently dishonest right wing anti-SSM supporters of the law making dishonest claims about what the law would do, or that legislators rejecting amendments that would clarify that the dishonest claims made by social conservatives were dishonest, could turn out badly, except all the people who urged the GOP to not pass the bill and for Pence to not sign it.

    Guess they should have listened. Also, not a good plan to invite the dishonest right wing anti-SSM bill supporters to the bill signing if you're trying to distance the bill from the anti-SSM efforts. Too bad. Crying crocodile tears over here for Pence and the GOP legislature for having to endure "vicious" attacks because they're idiots who ignored the warnings and pandered to anti-SSM bigots.
    Do you think the more credible voices are those of the actual legislators? Or those making noise outside? Please don't confuse the two. You won't like it when that tactic is used against the left.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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