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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1971
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Mr French is not only wrong, he is denying the very words spoken by the advocates for these new Religious Freedom laws.

    The current RFRA legal tests were NOT the law of the land, which was the reason for the passage of the 1993 RFRA federal bill.

    Mr French is either ignorant or lying - I don't know

    1982 Wisconsin was the first state to outlaw discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

    1996 In Romer v. Evans, the Supreme Court strikes down Colorado's Amendment 2, which denied gays and lesbians protections against discrimination, calling them “special rights.” According to Justice Anthony Kennedy, “We find nothing special in the protections Amendment 2 withholds. These protections . . . constitute ordinary civil life in a free society.”
    Please note that date - three years after passage of the federal RFRA. For some reason, the case seems to show that discrimination against LGBT Americans was legal in some states despite Mr French's claims
    Thank you for making Mr. French's point. No discrimination against LGBT has survived court challenge since RFRA was passed in 1993.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #1972
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Which means in New Mexico, you can run a cleaning business out of your garage and be forced to accept KKK sheets to wash.
    Well at least she is not a seamstress, otherwise she would be obligated to make the KKK sheets.

  3. #1973
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Indiana and the Intolerant Left - David French, National Review

    ". . . While it’s hardly surprising to see legally ignorant sportswriters use the language of segregated lunch counters, it’s disturbing to see well-informed CEOs such as Apple’s Tim Cook conjuring up the specter of the Old South. Simply put, their concerns about systematic invidious discrimination are utter hogwash, and they either know it or should know it. Why? Because RFRAs aren’t new, the legal standard they protect is decades older than the RFRAs themselves, and these legal standards have not been used — nor can they be used — to create the dystopian future the Left claims to fear. After all, the current RFRA legal tests were the law of the land for all 50 states — constitutionally mandated — until the Supreme Court’s misguided decision in Employment Division v. Smith, where the Court allowed fear of drug use to overcome its constitutional good sense. And yet during the decades before Smith, non-discrimination statutes proliferated, and were successfully enforced to open public accommodations to people of all races, creeds, colors, and — yes — sexual orientations. . . . "
    I already saw that.

    Then have the legislature "clarify" the law, something they said HELL NO!! to during the process earlier.

  4. #1974
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Thank you for making Mr. French's point. No discrimination against LGBT has survived court challenge since RFRA was passed in 1993.
    That is some good defence, wrong though it is. Mr French claimed that gays were protected BEFORE passage of the RFRA bill in 1993.

    Why then are right wing controlled states passing their own versions of the RFRA if not in attempts to subvert the movement to preserve gay rights? Why are so many state legislators quite openly admitting they are supporting such laws because their intention is to allow discrimination?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  5. #1975
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
    I guess in your view everyone has a right to be a bigot as long as they are acting with "sincere religious belief". The same nonsense was spouted about integrating schools, inter-racial marriages.... BS then and BS now.
    How about bigotry against the religious?
    Are religious groups not a protected class?
    Should the religious discriminated against because of their lifestyle choice?
    Should the force of governmental institutions be used against the religious to compel behavior in conflict with their sincerely held religious beliefs?
    Isn't your calling of religious groups "Bigots" an example of hate speech, designed to create public pressure against the religious?

    There is a balance that the courts have traditionally applied when protected groups are in conflict, the Indiana law re-affirms the courts role in balancing the needs of all individuals and protected classes, not just the ones that scream the loudest.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I already saw that.

    Then have the legislature "clarify" the law, something they said HELL NO!! to during the process earlier.
    There's actually no need for clarification, but the dishonest attacks and the gullible reporting of the story may force the state to take an unnecessary action for cosmetic purposes. Score one for the liars.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  7. #1977
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    How about bigotry against the religious?
    Are religious groups not a protected class?
    Should the religious discriminated against because of their lifestyle choice?
    Should the force of governmental institutions be used against the religious to compel behavior in conflict with their sincerely held religious beliefs?
    Isn't your calling of religious groups "Bigots" an example of hate speech, designed to create public pressure against the religious?

    There is a balance that the courts have traditionally applied when protected groups are in conflict, the Indiana law re-affirms the courts role in balancing the needs of all individuals and protected classes, not just the ones that scream the loudest.
    WWJD? If you don't know the answer....perhaps you need to read about the man.

  8. #1978
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    That is some good defence, wrong though it is. Mr French claimed that gays were protected BEFORE passage of the RFRA bill in 1993.

    Why then are right wing controlled states passing their own versions of the RFRA if not in attempts to subvert the movement to preserve gay rights? Why are so many state legislators quite openly admitting they are supporting such laws because their intention is to allow discrimination?
    The SCOTUS nudged states toward their own RFRA's in a decision in 1997.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  9. #1979
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    WWJD? If you don't know the answer....perhaps you need to read about the man.
    Thanks for a non response to my post. I love wasted time.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  10. #1980
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The SCOTUS nudged states toward their own RFRA's in a decision in 1997.

    Really can't admit it when you and your supposed supports are wrong, can you?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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