Page 197 of 320 FirstFirst ... 97147187195196197198199207247297 ... LastLast
Results 1,961 to 1,970 of 3196

Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1961
    Sage

    Peter King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    12,493

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Well, Peter, I won't set idle and say nothing while religious zealots attempt to control who I can and can't sue. If choose to sue against some religious interests. Too bad for them. I have the right of "freedom from religion" as much as they have "freedom of religion".

    But lets not forego the reality here. Some religions are profoundly more conservative and actually oppressive. Knowing what I know about the Muslim religion, I'd say that it would be obvious to which bakery is operated by Muslims.

    What's not so obvious is ultra conservative Christians who wear their religion on their business shirt sleeves. Hobby Lobby came out to the nation as being a more radical form of Christian affiliation. I say radical because not all Christian denominations subscribe to their beliefs.

    When you look at all of the small mom and pop business across the country...who want to cry "religious of freedom". Then others have the right to cry "freedom from religion. I'll see'em in court if they want to play the religious card. The same for any size business as far as I'm concerned.
    But I already said that companies should be mandated to sell regular products to everyone who orders them regardless of gender, religion, lack of religion, etc. etc. etc.

    But when someone asks for an off the book service/cake/product which is not part of the regular line of products, then someone has artistic freedom IMHO. Just like you cannot force a Jewish baker to make a "heil Hitler" cake.
    toward that end the tactics and the strategies that people resort to in carrying out this ideologically driven agenda of what they call “pro-life” which is really pro-fetus does not have anything to do with the lives of babies after they’re born or the women who bear them.

  2. #1962
    Irremovable Intelligence
    Removable Mind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,943

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I didn't even get a chance to read what he posted to me that you corrected.

    I've had no use for the Department of Ed since my kid came home and told me I did drugs because I smoke, and the teaching curriculum said smoking was a drug.
    Lo Sienta...
    Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? - William O. Douglas


  3. #1963
    Tavern Bartender
    Kinky tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-02-17 @ 05:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    38,185

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It can and does happen. It is even more likely to happen in areas where there are only one store or one pharmacy or one gas station, which do exist in the US.
    Of course. And I guess if you are on empty and the one gas station in town is closed until Monday, that's much better. Nobody had their feelings hurt.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  4. #1964
    Tavern Bartender
    Kinky tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-02-17 @ 05:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    38,185

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Lo Sienta...
    I don't speak Hebrew.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  5. #1965
    Irremovable Intelligence
    Removable Mind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,943

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I don't speak Hebrew.
    muy bueno, mi amiga!
    Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? - William O. Douglas


  6. #1966
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 04:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Of course. And I guess if you are on empty and the one gas station in town is closed until Monday, that's much better. Nobody had their feelings hurt.
    Closing your business for any reason is "fair" to everyone. It may be putting people "in danger" or costing them money, but it treats everyone equally. Those other things don't. So there is no reason why someone shouldn't be able to be compensated for such unreasonable unfair treatment.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #1967
    Sage
    disneydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,988

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    All of the pious hypocrite bigots should be asking themselves one question: WWJD?

  8. #1968
    Sage
    Somerville's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    On an island. Not that one!
    Last Seen
    05-23-17 @ 02:14 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    8,947

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Indiana and the Intolerant Left - David French, National Review

    ". . . While it’s hardly surprising to see legally ignorant sportswriters use the language of segregated lunch counters, it’s disturbing to see well-informed CEOs such as Apple’s Tim Cook conjuring up the specter of the Old South. Simply put, their concerns about systematic invidious discrimination are utter hogwash, and they either know it or should know it. Why? Because RFRAs aren’t new, the legal standard they protect is decades older than the RFRAs themselves, and these legal standards have not been used — nor can they be used — to create the dystopian future the Left claims to fear. After all, the current RFRA legal tests were the law of the land for all 50 states — constitutionally mandated — until the Supreme Court’s misguided decision in Employment Division v. Smith, where the Court allowed fear of drug use to overcome its constitutional good sense. And yet during the decades before Smith, non-discrimination statutes proliferated, and were successfully enforced to open public accommodations to people of all races, creeds, colors, and — yes — sexual orientations. . . . "
    Mr French is not only wrong, he is denying the very words spoken by the advocates for these new Religious Freedom laws.

    The current RFRA legal tests were NOT the law of the land, which was the reason for the passage of the 1993 RFRA federal bill.

    Mr French is either ignorant or lying - I don't know

    1982 Wisconsin was the first state to outlaw discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

    1996 In Romer v. Evans, the Supreme Court strikes down Colorado's Amendment 2, which denied gays and lesbians protections against discrimination, calling them “special rights.” According to Justice Anthony Kennedy, “We find nothing special in the protections Amendment 2 withholds. These protections . . . constitute ordinary civil life in a free society.”
    Please note that date - three years after passage of the federal RFRA. For some reason, the case seems to show that discrimination against LGBT Americans was legal in some states despite Mr French's claims
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  9. #1969
    Dungeon Master
    Sewer Rat
    Risky Thicket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    22,899

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    19 states that have ‘religious freedom’ laws like Indiana’s that no one is boycotting - The Washington Post
    The same law is on the books in 19 States, the Federal government(1993), and in-effect through case law in 11 other States. How is Indiana's legalizing discrimination, but these other 31 instances are not?

    Furthermore, can you show a case where RFRA was leveraged to win a discrimination case? Here are 10 cases, but they don't align with your viewpoint: 10 Americans Helped By Religious Freedom Bills Like Indiana's
    I don't know that the same law is on the books in 19 states. I'll have to do some reading.

    None of the 10 Americans "helped by the Religious Freedom Bills Like Indiana's" were gay. It would seem those individuals were included due to state religious freedom law. Indiana's expressed intent, however, is to use the law so that a small but vocal minority of religionists may use their religion to exclude people. Compassion helped 10 people in other states, Indiana passed a law to enable religious hatred.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf



  10. #1970
    Irremovable Intelligence
    Removable Mind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,943

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    But I already said that companies should be mandated to sell regular products to everyone who orders them regardless of gender, religion, lack of religion, etc. etc. etc.

    But when someone asks for an off the book service/cake/product which is not part of the regular line of products, then someone has artistic freedom IMHO. Just like you cannot force a Jewish baker to make a "heil Hitler" cake.
    No, of course I can't force a Jewish baker to do a Hitler cake for me ....but I might sue him or her for not. It's their choice. And a jury of peers can rule against me...or for me.

    But again, Peter, let's apply some common sense. Are KKK members - or say Storm Front members gonna line up to get a Jewish baker to bake a cake with Hitler on it? I'd say not unless they were purposely wanting to cause problems and that type of harassment is against the law.

    The cake for lesbians incident and the florist incident that became so exploited by media ...were much more isolated than the faux example I posted above.
    Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? - William O. Douglas


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •