Page 196 of 320 FirstFirst ... 96146186194195196197198206246296 ... LastLast
Results 1,951 to 1,960 of 3196

Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1951
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Reston, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,280
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    They're viciously dishonest for believing the proponents of the bill. Got it.

    More seriously, this is from a story today, and is consistent with lots of other stories on the amendments rejected by lawmakers:



    The viciously dishonest critics aren't stupid and so watched that happen. When given the chance to clarify the law to guarantee it wouldn't be a tool to overturn local ordinances, the GOP said HELL NO!!! Someone in this thread mentioned Texas attempting to use "religious freedom" legislation to overturn local ordinances dealing with civil rights for LGBT. Here's one story. Can you guarantee me that the Indiana RFRA cannot be used to overturn local ordinances?

    And the bottom line is the backers of this legislation in Indiana and elsewhere aren't stupid. They're well funded, organized, headed by smart people playing a long game, and it would be a mistake to take their coordinated efforts lightly. Somehow your assurances don't mean a whole lot given the muscle and coordination on this particular issue by groups that are proudly and vocally against SSM and contemptuous of civil rights being extended to LGBT. They tell us their goals, and you expect people not to believe them. That would be a mistake.
    Indiana and the Intolerant Left - David French, National Review

    ". . . While it’s hardly surprising to see legally ignorant sportswriters use the language of segregated lunch counters, it’s disturbing to see well-informed CEOs such as Apple’s Tim Cook conjuring up the specter of the Old South. Simply put, their concerns about systematic invidious discrimination are utter hogwash, and they either know it or should know it. Why? Because RFRAs aren’t new, the legal standard they protect is decades older than the RFRAs themselves, and these legal standards have not been used — nor can they be used — to create the dystopian future the Left claims to fear. After all, the current RFRA legal tests were the law of the land for all 50 states — constitutionally mandated — until the Supreme Court’s misguided decision in Employment Division v. Smith, where the Court allowed fear of drug use to overcome its constitutional good sense. And yet during the decades before Smith, non-discrimination statutes proliferated, and were successfully enforced to open public accommodations to people of all races, creeds, colors, and — yes — sexual orientations. . . . "
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #1952
    Professor

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    01-12-17 @ 09:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,885

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If that's actually true then it's a license to discriminate. Anyone with half a brain can justify any discrimination in religion - people did it with slavery. The Mormons used to believe goodness was related to being white, etc. And the courts can't judge whether your religious belief is "sincere" or not. The bill itself helpfully points out that the objection doesn't have to be related to a central tenet of any religion. So if your pastor says it, and it's #198 on #199 of sins, discriminate away.

    What's funny is Pence is trying to go on national TV and tell the world you're wrong, but in front of religious audiences agree with you.
    The law is designed to protect religious liberty. Religious groups are a protected class. They can't be persecuted simply because someone disagrees with their lifestyle. Where there is a conflict, the courts "balance the needs" of the groups in question not to burden individuals with undue institutional force. Reasonable under any standard of civility.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  3. #1953
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    56,604

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Running out of gas can easily put people in danger, particularly if it happens while trying to find a station that will sell you gas. Plus, it costs the person more money due to the businesses refusing to sell them something those businesses agreed to sell.
    Isn't running out of gas your doing?

  4. #1954
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    12-05-16 @ 06:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,923

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Oh, well I guess you don't believe it. I've been rejected by prospective employers, not every boy I ever liked liked me back, I've driven into gas stations and waited 10 minutes for nobody to come out to the pump, and so on. It's happened to other people as well. I don't think I'm the only person in the USA who hasn't gotten what I want exactly when I wanted it. I can also come up with extreme examples of anything and say the world is coming to an end because of it. I don't think there's any point to that. If you think we have a major problem where gas stations aren't going to sell their gas because they don't like you, that could make for an interesting game of "what if", but I don't play that real well. I can also imagine I'll hit the $300 million Powerball next week, but in the meantime I won't start spending the money.
    It can and does happen. It is even more likely to happen in areas where there are only one store or one pharmacy or one gas station, which do exist in the US.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #1955
    Guru
    Samhain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Northern Ohio
    Last Seen
    03-24-17 @ 01:17 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,789

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Yep -- and the one discriminating lost. Elane Photograph v. Willock, the state Supreme Court would not allow a photographer to use the state’s RFRA law as a defense
    Which means in New Mexico, you can run a cleaning business out of your garage and be forced to accept KKK sheets to wash. Sure, you can object, but then you will be held liable for discrimination in civil court.

    Seems like such a great idea to allow.
    Last edited by Samhain; 03-30-15 at 06:01 PM.

  6. #1956
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    12-05-16 @ 06:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,923

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Isn't running out of gas your doing?
    Not if you planned ahead for everything but bigotry.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #1957
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 08:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Some people in Indiana don't much like this new law

    Yeah, and then some are actually out explaining what it really is about.



    To further quell the left's hysteria over this law, here is a pro-gay rights law professor, Daniel O. Conkle, writing for USA Today on why Indiana needs RFRA. I am a supporter of gay rights, including same-sex marriage. But as an informed legal scholar, I also support the proposed Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). How can this be?


    The bill would establish a general legal standard, the "compelling interest" test, for evaluating laws and governmental practices that impose substantial burdens on the exercise of religion. This same test already governs federal law under the federal RFRA, which was signed into law by President Bill Clinton. And some 30 states have adopted the same standard, either under state-law RFRAs or as a matter of state constitutional law. Applying this test, a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that a Muslim prisoner was free to practice his faith by wearing a half-inch beard that posed no risk to prison security. Likewise, in a 2012 decision, a court ruled that the Pennsylvania RFRA protected the outreach ministry of a group of Philadelphia churches, ruling that the city could not bar them from feeding homeless individuals in the city parks.If the Indiana RFRA is adopted, this same general approach will govern religious freedom claims of all sorts, thus protecting religious believers of all faiths by granting them precisely the same consideration. But granting religious believers legal consideration does not mean that their religious objections will always be upheld.

    In any event, most religious freedom claims have nothing to do with same-sex marriage or discrimination. The proposed Indiana RFRA would provide valuable guidance to Indiana courts, directing them to balance religious freedom against competing interests under the same legal standard that applies throughout most of the land. It is anything but a "license to discriminate," and it should not be mischaracterized or dismissed on that basis......snip~

    Oh Dear: The Liberal Hysteria Over Indiana

  8. #1958
    Tavern Bartender
    Kinky tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:24 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    37,201

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Check out my post #1940 ....
    I didn't even get a chance to read what he posted to me that you corrected.

    I've had no use for the Department of Ed since my kid came home and told me I did drugs because I smoke, and the teaching curriculum said smoking was a drug.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  9. #1959
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    12-05-16 @ 06:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,923

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Oh. Well I guess I lied because your mother is different than my mother in law.
    No. Your mother in law is just using her religious beliefs as an excuse for her personal beliefs against same sex marriage/gays. If tomorrow, Catholics came out and said "we were wrong, there is nothing against homosexuality in the Bible", would she accept that decree? Would she simply say, "well my religion accepts you now, so I will too"?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #1960
    Irremovable Intelligence
    Removable Mind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,245

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Isn't running out of gas your doing?
    Does it matter? I can't be coerced to gas up every time somebody else wants me to. Right? If my choice to run out of gas causes somebody else harm...so what?
    Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? - William O. Douglas


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •