Page 195 of 320 FirstFirst ... 95145185193194195196197205245295 ... LastLast
Results 1,941 to 1,950 of 3196

Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1941
    Sage
    Somerville's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    On an island. Not that one!
    Last Seen
    03-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    8,707

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Yes, vicious dishonesty. The left has descended into the gutter on this one.
    Now large corporations are part of the "left"? Definitions sure have changed for some people
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  2. #1942
    Irremovable Intelligence
    Removable Mind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,238

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I've seen the headlines from TX. That's why government doesn't belong in education.
    Check out my post #1940 ....
    Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? - William O. Douglas


  3. #1943
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    56,520

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I just don't believe this. I doubt very much that many people would actually simply be calm about accepting someone's refusal to serve them, especially for something that like sex or race or their religion/beliefs. Especially if you took the time to actually go to that place to begin with, having no idea that they would refuse to serve you simply because you were a part of some group of people that they didn't agree with, not because you were asking for something they felt was offensive or hateful.

    Imagine driving on a road, and you need gas. The first place you come to says "can't give you gas, your car is blue or foreign". Okay, so you accept that reasoning even if it is stupid and your car takes the gas the person sells. You drive on a little, getting lower on gas as you go. There is another station. You pull over definitely worried now that you might run out of gas despite having filled up at the beginning of your drive. Now, it is you and your girlfriend (not romantic, just a friend) on the road. The woman at the counter misinterprets your hug as romantic and says she can't provide you with service because you are obviously a lesbian couple (each of you have a wedding band on your finger). You try to explain that you aren't but she doesn't want to hear it, saying you would lie to get her service. So you drive away hoping there is another gas station close. Right as you are getting desperate, light's been on, gas gage has been sitting on E, you see another station. You go to get gas, and the attendant stops you, saying he can't sell you gas because the sticker on the back of your car declares you are Catholic. He feels Catholics are wrongly interpreting the scriptures and worship the Pope rather than God/Jesus. Now what do you do? Simply say "well that is their rights" or recognize that all these businesses had different reasons for turning you away, reasons that didn't have anything to do with protecting their business, only their personal biases. And these things put you in danger. Would it be different if the one that refused due to the color or type of car you had was the last one, the one to leave you desperately sitting at E, unable to start your car, and having to call AAA or some other service to get you?
    At what point did any of these businesses put anyone in danger?

  4. #1944
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    12-05-16 @ 06:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,923

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Oh. Well, the only people I know who oppose gay marriage and gay coupling are my deeply religious friends/acquaintances . They are most certainly opposed for religious reasons. My mother in law is a holy rolling Catholic, and I've seen some of her literature that says homosexuality is a sin.
    My mother is Catholic as well, as was my grandmother. Guess who taught me that there was nothing wrong with homosexuality and that they should be allowed to marry? My mother and grandmother. My grandmother is the most devout to her faith that I have seen, having said prayers 4 hours a day, 7 days a week for as long as I knew her. (You didn't interrupt my grandmother's prayers.) Just because people have "literature" claiming something is a sin or say "my religion says" doesn't mean it isn't still their personal beliefs that lead them to do something like refusing to sell a cake for a same sex wedding.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #1945
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Reston, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,252
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Now large corporations are part of the "left"? Definitions sure have changed for some people
    Indiana and the Intolerant Left - David French, National Review

    ". . . While it’s hardly surprising to see legally ignorant sportswriters use the language of segregated lunch counters, it’s disturbing to see well-informed CEOs such as Apple’s Tim Cook conjuring up the specter of the Old South. Simply put, their concerns about systematic invidious discrimination are utter hogwash, and they either know it or should know it. Why? Because RFRAs aren’t new, the legal standard they protect is decades older than the RFRAs themselves, and these legal standards have not been used — nor can they be used — to create the dystopian future the Left claims to fear. After all, the current RFRA legal tests were the law of the land for all 50 states — constitutionally mandated — until the Supreme Court’s misguided decision in Employment Division v. Smith, where the Court allowed fear of drug use to overcome its constitutional good sense. And yet during the decades before Smith, non-discrimination statutes proliferated, and were successfully enforced to open public accommodations to people of all races, creeds, colors, and — yes — sexual orientations. . . . "
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #1946
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    16,508

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Yes, vicious dishonesty. The left has descended into the gutter on this one.
    They're viciously dishonest for believing the proponents of the bill. Got it.

    More seriously, this is from a story today, and is consistent with lots of other stories on the amendments rejected by lawmakers:

    Lawmakers could also add language to prevent the law from being used to overturn local human rights ordinances in about a dozen Indiana cities that protect gays and lesbians from discrimination. But in recent weeks, Republicans have shot down Democratic proposals to do just that.
    The viciously dishonest critics aren't stupid and so watched that happen. When given the chance to clarify the law to guarantee it wouldn't be a tool to overturn local ordinances, the GOP said HELL NO!!! Someone in this thread mentioned Texas attempting to use "religious freedom" legislation to overturn local ordinances dealing with civil rights for LGBT. Here's one story. Can you guarantee me that the Indiana RFRA cannot be used to overturn local ordinances?

    And the bottom line is the backers of this legislation in Indiana and elsewhere aren't stupid. They're well funded, organized, headed by smart people playing a long game, and it would be a mistake to take their coordinated efforts lightly. Somehow your assurances don't mean a whole lot given the muscle and coordination on this particular issue by groups that are proudly and vocally against SSM and contemptuous of civil rights being extended to LGBT. They tell us their goals, and you expect people not to believe them. That would be a mistake.

  7. #1947
    Tavern Bartender
    Kinky tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    03-24-17 @ 08:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    37,196

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I just don't believe this. I doubt very much that many people would actually simply be calm about accepting someone's refusal to serve them, especially for something that like sex or race or their religion/beliefs. Especially if you took the time to actually go to that place to begin with, having no idea that they would refuse to serve you simply because you were a part of some group of people that they didn't agree with, not because you were asking for something they felt was offensive or hateful.

    Imagine driving on a road, and you need gas. The first place you come to says "can't give you gas, your car is blue or foreign". Okay, so you accept that reasoning even if it is stupid and your car takes the gas the person sells. You drive on a little, getting lower on gas as you go. There is another station. You pull over definitely worried now that you might run out of gas despite having filled up at the beginning of your drive. Now, it is you and your girlfriend (not romantic, just a friend) on the road. The woman at the counter misinterprets your hug as romantic and says she can't provide you with service because you are obviously a lesbian couple (each of you have a wedding band on your finger). You try to explain that you aren't but she doesn't want to hear it, saying you would lie to get her service. So you drive away hoping there is another gas station close. Right as you are getting desperate, light's been on, gas gage has been sitting on E, you see another station. You go to get gas, and the attendant stops you, saying he can't sell you gas because the sticker on the back of your car declares you are Catholic. He feels Catholics are wrongly interpreting the scriptures and worship the Pope rather than God/Jesus. Now what do you do? Simply say "well that is their rights" or recognize that all these businesses had different reasons for turning you away, reasons that didn't have anything to do with protecting their business, only their personal biases. And these things put you in danger. Would it be different if the one that refused due to the color or type of car you had was the last one, the one to leave you desperately sitting at E, unable to start your car, and having to call AAA or some other service to get you?
    Oh, well I guess you don't believe it. I've been rejected by prospective employers, not every boy I ever liked liked me back, I've driven into gas stations and waited 10 minutes for nobody to come out to the pump, and so on. It's happened to other people as well. I don't think I'm the only person in the USA who hasn't gotten what I want exactly when I wanted it. I can also come up with extreme examples of anything and say the world is coming to an end because of it. I don't think there's any point to that. If you think we have a major problem where gas stations aren't going to sell their gas because they don't like you, that could make for an interesting game of "what if", but I don't play that real well. I can also imagine I'll hit the $300 million Powerball next week, but in the meantime I won't start spending the money.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #1948
    Irremovable Intelligence
    Removable Mind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,238

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    That should never be a possible lawsuit. A baker does not make cake's with bacon on it and he should have the right to still retain artistic freedom to make specially designed cakes (like the bacon and the 2 kissing men).
    Well, Peter, I won't set idle and say nothing while religious zealots attempt to control who I can and can't sue. If choose to sue against some religious interests. Too bad for them. I have the right of "freedom from religion" as much as they have "freedom of religion".

    But lets not forego the reality here. Some religions are profoundly more conservative and actually oppressive. Knowing what I know about the Muslim religion, I'd say that it would be obvious to which bakery is operated by Muslims.

    What's not so obvious is ultra conservative Christians who wear their religion on their business shirt sleeves. Hobby Lobby came out to the nation as being a more radical form of Christian affiliation. I say radical because not all Christian denominations subscribe to their beliefs.

    When you look at all of the small mom and pop business across the country...who want to cry "religious of freedom". Then others have the right to cry "freedom from religion. I'll see'em in court if they want to play the religious card. The same for any size business as far as I'm concerned.
    Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? - William O. Douglas


  9. #1949
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    12-05-16 @ 06:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,923

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    At what point did any of these businesses put anyone in danger?
    Running out of gas can easily put people in danger, particularly if it happens while trying to find a station that will sell you gas. Plus, it costs the person more money due to the businesses refusing to sell them something those businesses agreed to sell.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #1950
    Tavern Bartender
    Kinky tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    03-24-17 @ 08:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    37,196

    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    My mother is Catholic as well, as was my grandmother. Guess who taught me that there was nothing wrong with homosexuality and that they should be allowed to marry? My mother and grandmother. My grandmother is the most devout to her faith that I have seen, having said prayers 4 hours a day, 7 days a week for as long as I knew her. (You didn't interrupt my grandmother's prayers.) Just because people have "literature" claiming something is a sin or say "my religion says" doesn't mean it isn't still their personal beliefs that lead them to do something like refusing to sell a cake for a same sex wedding.
    Oh. Well I guess I lied because your mother is different than my mother in law.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •