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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Some people claim they can. They call it gaydar
    People claim lots of things, but that does not make them correct.
    If I blow the conch and they don't come back; then we've had it. We shan't keep the fire going. We'll be like animals. We'll never be rescued.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I don't agree that the discrimination is of a different kind, or different in kind but not in the substance of the harm. I can't see how it's any easier or harder to identify someone as gay or a Jew, but societies have found it quite easy to discriminate against and persecute both for thousands of years.

    Of course someone dedicated to hiding the fact he or she is gay/Jewish can get away with it for quite a while - a lifetime I imagine for some - but that's not what we're talking about. If someone is open and gay, that's not a particularly difficult thing to figure out in a whole lot of ordinary interactions. I know I've done it hundreds of times.
    Your position is that it is just as easy to spot a gay person as a black person. If you are going to be that dishonest then have a nice day.
    If I blow the conch and they don't come back; then we've had it. We shan't keep the fire going. We'll be like animals. We'll never be rescued.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, all your questions were hyperbolic and didn't actually address what you were responding to. YOU created the argument that Grim was making because his actual argument didn't seem to suit you.
    You don't like the questions I asked because they point up that when taken far enough, laws that force people to interact with homosexuals in rental housing and public accommodations will be unconstitutional--and therefore unenforceable. The two grounds my questions were getting at were: they violate the First Amendment freedom of association; and they violate the implied constitutional right to personal privacy.

    If anyone wants to claim people should rent to homosexuals just because it's the right thing to do, fine with me. I don't have any moral convictions about the matter one way or the other. When it comes to matters that are regulated by laws, I don't think it accomplishes much to offer personal opinions about what's right or wrong. When all is said and done, all that counts is who can enforce what against whom.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Your posts reflect the mindset of the anti-liberal, someone who doesn't actually believe in anything, but just rallies against things. Anything to attack anything that doesn't suit your agenda, and misrepresent anything that you can't argue against reasonably. This is the failing of the extreme conservative.
    actually not.. my view is pretty much main stream blue collar America...

    we dont trust the liberal agenda.. nobody should

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    You don't like the questions I asked because they point up that when taken far enough, laws that force people to interact with homosexuals in rental housing and public accommodations will be unconstitutional--and therefore unenforceable. The two grounds my questions were getting at were: they violate the First Amendment freedom of association; and they violate the implied constitutional right to personal privacy.

    If anyone wants to claim people should rent to homosexuals just because it's the right thing to do, fine with me. I don't have any moral convictions about the matter one way or the other. When it comes to matters that are regulated by laws, I don't think it accomplishes much to offer personal opinions about what's right or wrong. When all is said and done, all that counts is who can enforce what against whom.
    exactly.... and well said..

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    People claim lots of things, but that does not make them correct.

    we all saw with Lois Lerner..

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    I have always believed that our government, at any and all levels is a direct reflection on who and what we are at that level. Pence IS Indiana's governor a reflection of the people of Indiana. If that is not the case there would be a motion to recall.
    i don't believe that we can recall him. he's governor because there was a lot of apathy and because his opponent, nice guy that he was / is, ran a really poor campaign.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Yes, establishments often can enforce "dress codes" - ties, jackets, no sandals, no shorts, no t-shirts, etc.

    That is different than "we don't serve blondes" or "get out of here you look like my ex-girlfriend".
    There is no "dress code". She told them she wasn't going to do business with them because she loves animals. She refused to serve people in the past who park outside with dead deer on the trucks too. No difference at all. They aren't welcome there even with different shirts.

    You can decline service to people for any reason. If you're a hairdresser, nobody can come in and demand that you cut their hair and you have to do it. If you're an accountant, nobody can come in and demand that you do their taxes and you have to do it. There are no laws that say you must serve just anyone who wants to be served. There are laws that say "You must serve (insert protected class here)."
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Your position is that it is just as easy to spot a gay person as a black person. If you are going to be that dishonest then have a nice day.
    Well, that's a pretty hilariously dishonest characterization of what I said. I never said anything of the sort.

    Here's my quote, again:

    1) Of course someone dedicated to hiding the fact he or she is gay/Jewish can get away with it for quite a while - a lifetime I imagine for some - but that's not what we're talking about. If someone is open and gay, that's not a particularly difficult thing to figure out in a whole lot of ordinary interactions. I know I've done it hundreds of times.
    The part I bolded just completely and obviously CANNOT be interpreted by anyone as "it's just as easy to spot a gay person as a black person." Do what you want, but it's not because I've been dishonest. You somehow completely misread my post or we're talking past each other, or there's some other huge disconnect. Not sure....

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    kicking out a gay person for being gay is the same thing as kicking out a black person for being black.
    And it's the same thing as kicking a woman out for being woman, and it's the same thing as kicking a handicapped person out for being handicapped, and it's the same thing as kicking an elderly man out because he's elderly, and it's the same thing as kicking a Japanese American out because he's Japanese American. We can come up with all the comparisons in the world. Fun!
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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