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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    His points were completely irrelevant to the post of which he was responding, and misrepresented Grim's position.
    not to those of use see the bigger issue...his points were spot on as far as the goverment over reach and this not stopping unless its curtailed...

    some of us are not as in love with Obama and his judgement..
    Last edited by Travis007; 03-30-15 at 11:36 AM.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If that's all that's at stake, then Indiana can amend the law to protect gays from discrimination except in cases of cake and flowers. I would take a large bet that's not going to happen. It's bigger than cake and flowers.
    It doesn't take away their legal recourse. IIRC
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't disagree with you. The law is a smokescreen for attacks on the LGBT community. If it wasn't, it's broadness would address other groups, such as atheists for example. The actual legal intent of such a law, however, is not really problematic, and people can choose to associate with whomever they want. I support businesses having the right to choose who they will serve for whatever reason. I also support free speech and freedom of the press, and I would encourage people to take out full page ads in newspapers identifying businesses who choose not to serve certain groups of people.
    it is not a smokescreen against the LBGT at all.. its a two way street for respect and tolerance..which the liberals have no respect of

    I say take out full page adds on those who take out full page adds attacking a private business for their beliefs

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Above you said this discussion was about more than than what the law is, and includes what we think the law should be. Should it be legal for a private business to have a DADT type policy. They will hire you if you're in the closet, and will fire you if they find out you're gay, for no reason other than you're gay.



    Goodness, I really cannot figure out why you often go to great lengths to avoid the point than address it and have an honest debate.
    Okay, forget DADT. What you want to know is should a business be able to fire you because you're gay and they don't like it? That's up to the business who they hire and fire. Businesses can fire you today for any reason (except being of the protected classes). So again, why is it any more horrific to lose your job because you're a man and your boss doesn't like your choice in male partner than it would be if you were straight and you lost your job because your boss couldn't stand your wife and didn't want her coming to your company picnics anymore?

    You're trying to make this about emotion. It's about practicality. I know a business who fires a man because he's gay is going to face international backlash, so chances are they won't do it. The world is a very different place than it was in 1964. The law needs tweaking so these things don't happen. And the religious people shouldn't be treated above others either.

    But whether you agree with me or not, I'll say what I keep saying - I do not believe anyone has the right to demand that a business owner serve him or engage in commerce with him. You disagree. That's okay. Nobody has to agree with everyone else 100% of the time.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't disagree with you. The law is a smokescreen for attacks on the LGBT community. If it wasn't, it's broadness would address other groups, such as atheists for example. The actual legal intent of such a law, however, is not really problematic, and people can choose to associate with whomever they want. I support businesses having the right to choose who they will serve for whatever reason. I also support free speech and freedom of the press, and I would encourage people to take out full page ads in newspapers identifying businesses who choose not to serve certain groups of people.

    Yes but have you also considered that this is perhaps the whole point. It cuts both ways, CC. Taking out ads only draws attention to a specific issue, and either angers or affirms one's sensibilities. They tried to take down Chic fil A a couple years back, Oops, that didn't exactly pan out did it? Be careful what you wish for, is the lesson for the day! It goes to what I said some 150 pages back, and that is that I am surprisingly against such laws. I fear the long term efficacy of such laws, and followed to their logical conclusion only serve to divide people, not the other way around.

    Editing: I think a good compromise is to shift the burden, or provide a pre-trial test of some homosexual wanting to sue, by simply asking them one question. Did you have other options? It is easily verifiable, and would not gum up court rooms.




    Tim-
    Last edited by Hicup; 03-30-15 at 11:28 AM.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Whether sexual orientation is analogous to race with respect to public accommodations depends on what the law is in a particular state.
    in respect to reality, it doesn't depend.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I "dodged" the question because I'm on topic. This isn't about being black. It's about businesses being allowed to decline service to gay people under the guise of religion.
    kicking out a gay person for being gay is the same thing as kicking out a black person for being black.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    not to those of use see the bigger issue...his points were spot on as far as the goverment over reach and this not stopping unless its curtailed...

    some of are not as in love with Obama and his judgement..
    Actually, they wouldn't be irrelevant to the "chicken littles" amongst you, folks who love to take things out of context and invent arguments and positions that don't exist... folks that just hate Obama because they need something to hate.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    What's wrong is to tell a business he can't refuse service to someone for whatever reasons he chooses
    nah, we tried that in the south up until the mid to late 60s. people acted like mean assholes and created a second tier citizenship for blacks. now you can't do that anymore, and rightfully so.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Yes but have you also considered that this is perhaps the whole point. It cuts both ways, CC. Taking out ads only draws attention to a specific issue, and either angers or affirms one's sensibilities. They tried to take down Chic fil A a couple years back, Oops, that didn't exactly pan out did it? Be careful what you wish for, is the lesson for the day! It goes to what I said some 150 pages back, and that is that I am surprisingly against such laws. I fear the long term efficacy of such laws, and followed to their logical conclusion only serve to divide people, not the other way around.

    Editing: I think a good compromise is to shift the burden, or provide a pre-trial test of some homosexual wanting to sue, by simply asking them one question. Did you have other options? It is easily verifiable, and would not gum up court rooms.




    Tim-
    I would agree with you on this. ALL of these laws, telling people that they MUST associate with anyone, or telling them that they don't have to associate with anyone are divisive and problematic. Both sets need to be eliminated.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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