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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Where does it say it can discriminate?



    This ignorance of the law was exuded during the Hobby Lobby case last summer. Also, it’s worth noting (again) that RFRA isn’t a “blank check” to discriminate.

    Here’s RFRA:
    (a) IN GENERAL- Government shall not substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability, except as provided in subsection (b).
    (b) EXCEPTION- Government may substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion only if it demonstrates that application of the burden to the person--
    (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and
    (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.


    Here’s Indiana’s law:
    Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a governmental entity may not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability. (b) A governmental entity may substantially burden a person's exercise of religion only if the governmental entity demonstrates that application of the burden to the person: (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest......snip~

    Oh Dear: The Liberal Hysteria Over Indiana

    You left out Section 9:

    "Sec. 9. A person whose exercise of religion has been
    substantiallyburdened, or islikely tobe substantiallyburdened,by
    a violation of this chapter may assert the violation or impending
    violation as a claim or defense in a judicial or administrative
    proceeding, regardless of whether the state or any other
    governmental entity is a party to the proceeding."


    This provides that religious beliefs (as defined earlier) are a valid defense in claims between two persons (which also previously defined includes business entities). In plan English that means if a Muslim cab driver refused service to a blind person because they have a service dog (and yes that has happened, Minnesota Cab Driver case) , the owner can claim a religious objection to Jews and under this law it is a legal defense.


    https://iga.in.gov/static-documents/...01.05.ENRS.pdf

    >>>>

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    my two cents

    i saw this coming a while back.....and mentioned it in a few threads

    you can only push your POV onto others for so long, and so far, before there is a push back

    we are still are a christian nation....whether or not some of you like that idea

    and "forcing" people to participate in things that go against what they believe, is going to case backlash

    when it comes to bakeries, florists, and wedding chapels.....there is always someone else willing to get the business

    when it comes to other things.....hotels, taxis, hospitals, etc....sometimes there isnt a choice

    i know....some of you will come back, well then "dont open a public store"

    when your rights start superseding someone else's, there will be issues

    the governor, and the state here, finally said enough is enough
    well this premise would only have merit if:
    there was actually force, theres not
    gay people wanted more than equal rights, they dont
    if gay peoples rights were superseding others, they dont

    thr same silly irrational and false claims were made when states tried banning gay marriage, it failed

    I welcome all these bigoted and or fear moves though because just like banning it will HELP establish equal rights in the end, its sweet irony.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    You can tell if someone is gay just by looking at them?
    Some people claim they can. They call it gaydar

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    did you have a stroke in the middle of composing this screed?
    I see you can't answer any of the questions I posed.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I don't know who's pushing for the RFRA laws. That was a law that the Democrats and the ACLU championed. If it isn't working out for people the way they expected it to, they need to redo it.
    If you don't know, you're not looking. And it's odd that you think the LBGT community should ignore that open anti-gay bigots are pushing the law. Those folks are not like you. They do care and make a big deal out of telling us all they care and that defeat of the "homosexual agenda" is their goal.

    Jim Crow laws were before my time. Can you stay in 2015 with me please? This isn't about Jim Crow laws. But if a business owner decided he wanted to hang a sign that said "whites only", that would be his choice in this day and age. With the 24 hour media, chances are he wouldn't be in business very long. If a business owner wanted to hang a sign that says "people who have pre marital sex are sinners and will not be served", legally he could do that, but his business would suffer too.
    That's generally true, and I imagine in NE it's undoubtedly true. Most if not all of the NE has had laws protecting LGBT for a decade or more, so it's in the business DNA up there. It's different in the South, and it's a good thing people are pushing back against those WHO TELL US they're trying to drag us backwards in time.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    If you want to talk about race, you'll have to find someone else to do it. You said yourself this bill was about gay people and religion, not race.

    I'll say it one more time. The law should require that everyone be served by someone who demands their labor, or the laws should be changed to leave it up to the business owner who presumably wants to stay in business and have a good business model.
    you've dodged the question twice now, so i'll answer it.

    no, it should not be ok to kick out a black guy for being black. and no, it should not be ok to kick a gay guy out for being gay. if a church doesn't want to perform a gay wedding, fine. a lunch counter is not a church.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If you don't know, you're not looking. And it's odd that you think the LBGT community should ignore that open anti-gay bigots are pushing the law. Those folks are not like you. They do care and make a big deal out of telling us all they care and that defeat of the "homosexual agenda" is their goal.



    That's generally true, and I imagine in NE it's undoubtedly true. Most if not all of the NE has had laws protecting LGBT for a decade or more, so it's in the business DNA up there. It's different in the South, and it's a good thing people are pushing back against those WHO TELL US they're trying to drag us backwards in time.
    And I encourage people in the LGBT community to advance their "agenda". I have agendas too, in the animal rights world, and I would hope that people wish me luck in advancing my agendas as well. People should have passions about causes.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    once again, the traits you listed are not analogous to sexual orientation. sexual orientation is analogous to race. if it's not ok to kick out a black guy for being black, then it's not ok to kick out a gay guy for being gay.
    Whether sexual orientation is analogous to race with respect to public accommodations depends on what the law is in a particular state.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    1.)But it's okay to kick me out because I'm blonde, or because I smell like cigarettes, or because I pick my nose at the table, or because he doesn't feel like serving me, or because I look like the teenager who broke his heart, or because my brother took his place on the basketball team, or because......the list goes on endlessly.
    2.)Either make it a rule that he has to serve everyone, or know that the market will ferret out people who have stupid business models.
    1.) dont believe anybody said its "ok" its just not illegal and doesnt violate your rights in some cases, huge difference
    2.) well thats irrational because theres nothing to base that on, no rights or law and secondly reality proves that the market will not always do that

    its easier to just simply stick to equal rights and protecting them
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    you've dodged the question twice now, so i'll answer it.

    no, it should not be ok to kick out a black guy for being black. and no, it should not be ok to kick a gay guy out for being gay. if a church doesn't want to perform a gay wedding, fine. a lunch counter is not a church.
    I "dodged" the question because I'm on topic. This isn't about being black. It's about businesses being allowed to decline service to gay people under the guise of religion.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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