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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1461
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Good post, Grim. I would say I pretty much agree with you, here.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    As long as they actually serve everyone, I would support that.
    That isn't what this is about and you should really be able to see thru a politician's lies and that of the FRC, who stood behind the governor as signed the law. Try reading the bill for one. It's impossibly broad. All it says is "burdens religious beliefs." That can be freaking anything, including medical treatment, and it's leaving the courts to act as mind readers in a case by case basis.

    This is about hatred of LGBT, period. The only diff is they aren't able to be *quite* as transparent about it as those very same pulpits were in the past

    "SB 101 will help protect individuals, Christian businesses and churches from those supporting homosexual marriages and those supporting government recognition and approval of gender identity (male cross-dressers)."

    Notice no mention of protection for other religions or of other targeted groups. I guess you must be a fan of repealing the civil rights act too. I mean at least then you're consistent

    Oh and it clearly violates "equal protection" and roper v evans, public accommodation laws, as well as anti discrimination laws in 12 counties

    If nothing else, i hope this circus and massive disinvestment dissuades other states from attempting the same
    Last edited by chromium; 03-30-15 at 05:06 AM.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    Do I need to guess which party he belongs to, or could I be dead wrong in my first assumption?
    if we go by responses in this thread, i would guess it's a tossup between repub and libertarian

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's a down the middle answer for a question that is "Yes" or "No." He's wanting to have it both ways - tell the anti-SSM community that they'll have a weapon to deny service to teh gays ("Yes"), and tell the rest of the country and the business community that the law is not a license to discriminate ("No"). It's one or the other. If it's the former, then there is no "faux" outrage on the part of us leftists. You've been saying it's the latter, "No", but yet defend Pence for his non-response. Like I keep saying, pick a side. There is no middle on that question.
    He's a politician. In the past, these very same cast of villains would just openly say "screw the homos," but they slowly realize they can't get away with that, so they conspire to come up with utter bull**** that only the weak minded will fall for

    Fortunately, business leaders have acted diligently to back them into a corner of having to choose between upsetting their bigot base, and losing hundreds of millions/billions for their state and creating a talent exodus. We can't relent by accepting ANYTHING these professional liars say.

    My terms of their surrender would be: 1) the law is quickly repealed, 2) they beg forgiveness and offer to remove religion from the list of protected class, and 3) they resign from public office forever and these lobbyist groups behind the law shutdown

    That *might* convince me of their sincere regret

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    "The business owner, who would not give his name or the name of his business, said he had told some LGBT “people” that equipment was broken in his restaurant and he couldn’t serve them even though it wasn’t and other people were already eating at the tables"


    These are the kinds of cowardly bigots the law caters to. They won't even admit they discriminate and lie about the reasons:

    One Restaurant Already Celebrated 'Religious Liberty' By Turning Away Gays | ThinkProgress

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Please explain
    You did not know religion is a protected class?


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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    The Illinois law went into effect in 1998, before anyone would have expected the left-wingnuts at the Obama Administration to argue in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores Inc. that the federal RFRA didn't protect the Green family (owners of Hobby Lobby) because their company wasn't a "person" that could "exercise religion," even though the legal definition of person in this context was commonly understood to apply to "non-persons" such as corporations:



    When it comes to judges who apparently can't read a legal dictionary, you shouldn't leave anything to chance.
    And in 1998 there wasn't a big fight over gay marriage. The politics around the issue has completely changed. Which is what this Illinois law is all about. It's revenge against gay marriage becoming illegal all over the country. With this law the concern is how the law will be applied. In 1993 and 1997 there was no concerns.
    Last edited by SenorXm/Sirius; 03-30-15 at 07:15 AM.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Democrats should push this issue hard in '16.

    1]The addition of sexual orientation and identity to the protected classes of the Civil rights legislation.

    2] Repeal of the '93 federal RFRA.

    States' RFRA would be valid...with the exception that states could no longer discrimination against any of the protected classes.

    Hobby Lobby did not argue that the federal government was violating their religious rights under the Constitution...they argued that ACA's requirement was violating the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act...a federal law. By repealing the federal RFRA, it would require that companies like HL would have to argue before the court that a federal provision like ACA violated the business' Constitutional right to exercise of religious beliefs.

    Let businesses prove they have a religious right to discriminate under the Constitution... not a federal law.


  8. #1468
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    A compelling problem with the Indiana RFRA law, is that Indiana does not have a statewide nondiscrimination law that protects sexual orientation and gender identity similar to civil rights laws forbidding discrimination based on race, color, sex, age, religion, and national origin. In states that do have statewide LGBT nondiscrimination protections, such civil rights laws are viewed by many legal scholars as a "compelling government interest" that trumps the RFRA.

    This is why George Stephanopoulos asked Pence yesterday if Indiana legislators plan on adding sexual orientation as a protected class under the state's civil rights laws. Pence's response; "I will not push for that. That's not on my agenda and that's not been the -- that's not been an objective of the people of the state of Indiana."

    What we have then, is Pence refusing to even consider a legislative fix that would render the current Indiana RFRA brouhaha a moot point.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    You mean the ones appointed by the elected officials to deliver justice and protect the constitution? Sorry, but that is better than gerrymandering and pandering politicians who are about as trustworthy as gutter rats (and then I have to apologize to the rats because some of them are more morally upstanding than a lot of big politicians).
    None are elected by the voters like lower level judges are. They are basically unaccountable yet make some of the most crucial of decisions.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    You do realize that is one of major functions of federal judges: to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority? Thus, overriding the wishes of the majority is not necessarily over-stepping; its doing his/her job.
    When they pick and choose who is and how they are protected, then we have a problem.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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