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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    The better response is the one we saw earlier, the one where businesses advertise that they serve everyone. A freedom solution
    As long as they actually serve everyone, I would support that.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    1.)They have been threatened with financial penalty and hardship through legal channels if they do not comply... You can call that what you want, but it doesn't change what it is.

    2.)Where did you come up with that? That does not apply in any way to what I said.
    3.) If a gay person orders a wedding cake and does not specify it's for a gay wedding, then if the baker refuses, that in my view is discrimination, not a religious objection.
    4.)I just don't see that as the same.
    5.) Denying people an apartment because you disagree with their lifestyle or because you object to how they might conduct themselves behind closed doors, isn't a justification to refuse to rent to them.
    6.) I realize that there are some grey areas with this, but I just try and judge this situation considering both sides and doing what is right.
    7.)Your question brings to mind a similar debate I've seen discussed in the past, that is far tougher than this one... It's whether the manager of a family oriented apartment complex, where children of all ages live and are given a resonably secure environment to engage in outdoor activities, is within his rights to refuse to rent to a preditor who was convicted of multiple counts of child molestation several years ago and served his time.
    8.)Geez... lighten up... My point was, that if someone is so arrogant that they get in peoples faces with their lifestyle, which they know will be seen as objectionable and offensive to a significant percentage of our society, and basically challenge them to look sideways, then they deserve to be tossed to the curb.
    9.)What I'm saying here is, tolerance is a 2 way street. if you show respect for people and treat them the way you would want to be treated, you'll find that tolerance will win the day, and quite often even over valid religious objections.
    1.)I agree you can call it what you want but it wont change the fact of what it is, they were NOT threatened LMAO
    laws are laws they arent threats

    by that logic we are threatened every day then

    2.) because its the same thing. it applies 100%
    3.) its discrimination no matter what and its discrimination against a gay person as already proven.
    4.) and thats the problem.. thats the problem with the law and its a huge problem with the failed logic behind your judgments of the situation
    5.) yes i get it. Some how its logical to NOT give a "cake" to people for a wedding based on religion and that seems justified because people may feel its a sin. But they should have to give the gay couple an apartment to live in together even if they think its a sin.

    very consistent in logic there (sarcasm)

    6.) what is right is flowing the same rules as everybody, not breaking the law no infringing on peoples rights and not illegally discriminating
    7.) no, those are not the same at all, and there are many places where laws already speak on this issue and sex offenders have rules themselves they must go by. That has nothing to do with a gay couple holy cow lol
    rapist =/= gay couple
    8.) am as light as can be and having a party is nothing like the point you are now trying to make "getting in to faces" whatever that means
    9.) tolerance IS a two way street . . and the RESPECT part has to be equal.

    to often the people crying and whining over equal rights, civil rights and antidiscrimination laws are the ones that want no part of equality. they want thier OPPRESSIVE views respected while the other side just wants to have the same rights.

    for example its not respectful to illegally discriminate and violate peoples rights nor is that tolerance.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 03-30-15 at 01:26 AM.
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  3. #1453
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Do you like that phrase? I thought it was so descriptive that I borrowed it from Justice Scalia.
    You also borrowed it from the Family Rights Council, a group of proven liars and bigots.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Refusing to rent an apartment to someone who is gay, is wrong for the same reasons as I stated in the example above. Providing shelter to a gay person isn't an endorsement of their lifestyle or participating in something that is sacrilegious. Now if a gay person said I would like to rent this apartment to host gay sex parties, they deserve to be refused for being such a total moron.
    Say a devout Muslim who believes homosexuality is wrong owns a quadriplex and occupies one of the units himself. Does a state law that requires him to rent to homosexuals violate anything in the Constitution? If so, what, exactly, and why? And if it is not unconstitutional in that application, what if it required him to rent the other unit in a duplex he occupied to homosexuals? What if he is renting a room in the house he and his family live in? Can the implied constitutional right of privacy include the right to abortion, as the Supreme Court held in Roe v. Wade, and yet not include a person's right to privacy at home with his family?

    If discrimination against homosexuals is sheer bigotry, why tolerate it at all? Why not require people to include homosexuals in the people they invite to parties in their homes? Why not prohibit the local poker group or book club that meets in a member's house from excluding homosexuals? Why allow a person to discriminate against someone of the same sex in their choice of marriage partners? Would laws that did these things violate anything in the Constitution? If so, what, exactly, and why?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Say a devout Muslim who believes homosexuality is wrong owns a quadriplex and occupies one of the units himself. Does a state law that requires him to rent to homosexuals violate anything in the Constitution? If so, what, exactly, and why? And if it is not unconstitutional in that application, what if it required him to rent the other unit in a duplex he occupied to homosexuals? What if he is renting a room in the house he and his family live in? Can the implied constitutional right of privacy include the right to abortion, as the Supreme Court held in Roe v. Wade, and yet not include a person's right to privacy at home with his family?

    If discrimination against homosexuals is sheer bigotry, why tolerate it at all? Why not require people to include homosexuals in the people they invite to parties in their homes? Why not prohibit the local poker group or book club that meets in a member's house from excluding homosexuals? Why allow a person to discriminate against someone of the same sex in their choice of marriage partners? Would laws that did these things violate anything in the Constitution? If so, what, exactly, and why?
    Grim said it was "wrong" not illegal and never said anyone should be forced to interact with anyone based on the Constitution. Your entire post is hyperbole and does not really address what he said.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You also borrowed it from the Family Rights Council, a group of proven liars and bigots.
    Really? Unless you are clairvoyant, you have no idea where I borrowed it from. I do not even know what that group is, although from your description I would guess it is made up of statist drones. I saw the phrase in Justice Scalia's dissenting opinion in Lawrence v. Texas, as I recall. He was specifically talking about several members of the Court that he believed had signed onto the homosexual agenda, and I think he is exactly right about that. And Justice Kennedy seems to have signed on very enthusiastically.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Grim said it was "wrong" not illegal and never said anyone should be forced to interact with anyone based on the Constitution. Your entire post is hyperbole and does not really address what he said.
    No hyperbole about it. Every one of my questions was serious. Nothing is stopping anyone who thinks it's right to rent to homosexuals from doing just that. The more relevant question is whether people who do not want to rent to them in buildings with only a few units, where freedom of association and the right to privacy come into play, can be forced to do it by law.

    Apartments and other rental housing are not usually considered public accommodations. But these same issues have been raised by state public accommodations laws. And it is those laws that the RFRA which is the topic of this thread apparently was meant to create a religious-belief exception to.

    RFRA's are meant to protect the right to free exercise, which is one more part of the First Amendment, along with the freedoms of speech and association, that public accommodations laws which make sexual preference a protected category may run up against.

    Maybe someone else will want to give some thought to the questions I posed.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well then the federal law shouldn't either, I eagerly await your challenge to it.

    Keep us updated.

    I peg it 60-40 in favor of being upheld, Indiana is in the most consertative appeal court circuit in the country. And SCOTUS will not be reviewing this case. In fact 20 states have similar laws and I've not heard about those laws being challenged. The only people upset about this are the people who cruised around town looking for the one bakery out of ten with bible verses on the door to jack up. Unless you are a trouble maker you have literally no chance of this being a proble
    You realize this is the exact same thing same by the bigots back in 2004 when state after state had gay marriage bans right.

    Now in june they'll be shown their proper place - the lowest common denominator of hateful worthless trash

    This law and the others like it are entirely out of animus for a particular group and therefore are unconstitutional. It's only a matter of time, only indiana's reputation for this, like the south for jim crow, will *never* be forgotten

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    They have been threatened with financial penalty and hardship through legal channels if they do not comply... You can call that what you want, but it doesn't change what it is.
    Good, they deserve it. Discrimination is to be abhorred and done away with by any means necessary, not celebrated and enabled by state law.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Do I need to guess which party he belongs to, or could I be dead wrong in my first assumption?

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