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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1411
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    1.)Equal rights isn't a right by itself, and the term civil rights is meaningless without being defined.
    never claimed it was please stick to what is actually said
    2.)you are welcome to that opinion but its meanignless to me
    keep trying, more fails of those types of deflections will simply follow lmao
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    the solution to all of this is so very simply . . dont choose to break the law

    if you run a business simply dont CHOOSE to be a criminal and break the law and or infringe on the factual rights of others. Dont be an moron and think you get special treatment and are above the law because of your feelings.

    WE ALL must play by the same rules, theres no special treatment.

    Ill keep repeating it, the best part of things like this is in the end it will do nothing more then HELP equal rights just like bannings did and just like bigotry and discrimination based on other BS reasons before it do also. Sweet irony.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's a down the middle answer for a question that is "Yes" or "No." He's wanting to have it both ways - tell the anti-SSM community that they'll have a weapon to deny service to teh gays ("Yes"), and tell the rest of the country and the business community that the law is not a license to discriminate ("No"). It's one or the other. If it's the former, then there is no "faux" outrage on the part of us leftists. You've been saying it's the latter, "No", but yet defend Pence for his non-response. Like I keep saying, pick a side. There is no middle on that question.
    Sorry, but your faux outrage is just as empty now as before. There's no problem here.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's a down the middle answer for a question that is "Yes" or "No." He's wanting to have it both ways - tell the anti-SSM community that they'll have a weapon to deny service to teh gays ("Yes"), and tell the rest of the country and the business community that the law is not a license to discriminate ("No"). It's one or the other. If it's the former, then there is no "faux" outrage on the part of us leftists. You've been saying it's the latter, "No", but yet defend Pence for his non-response. Like I keep saying, pick a side. There is no middle on that question.
    UVA Law Prof Who Supports Gay Marriage Explains Why He Supports Indiana's Religious Freedom Law

    9:32 PM, Mar 29, 2015 By JOHN MCCORMACKDouglas Laycock, a professor at the University of Virginia Law School, writes in an email:

    Read more...
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's a down the middle answer for a question that is "Yes" or "No." He's wanting to have it both ways - tell the anti-SSM community that they'll have a weapon to deny service to teh gays ("Yes"), and tell the rest of the country and the business community that the law is not a license to discriminate ("No"). It's one or the other. If it's the former, then there is no "faux" outrage on the part of us leftists. You've been saying it's the latter, "No", but yet defend Pence for his non-response. Like I keep saying, pick a side. There is no middle on that question.

    Indiana Governor: This Is the Same Religious Freedom Law Obama Voted for in Illinois

    White House doesn't dispute it.

    10:21 AM, Mar 29, 2015 By JOHN MCCORMACKIn an appearance on ABC's This Week, Indiana governor Mike Pence defended his state's Religious Freedom Restoration Act by noting that Barack Obama had voted for the same law as an Illinois state senator.

    Read more...
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    I heard someone on one of the Sunday morning political shows say this law will be like the early 60's in the south, where you see signs on store front windows saying "We don't serve 'whoever'" (she was alluding to black people of course) and without realizing it, she exposed the flaw in her argument against the new law.

    A baker for example, refusing to create/provide a cake for a gay wedding because gay marriage violates their religious beliefs, isn't discrimination and it's well within their rights to refuse to do so... However, that same baker refusing to serve gay people period, because homosexuality violates their religious beliefs, is unjustified discrimination in my view.

    The difference between the 2 is clear.. Not wanting to take part in, or provide services for, an event (gay marriage) that violates the bakers religious beliefs, is in my view perfectly justified... However, serving gay people in general who are there for example just to buy a cake for general consumption, isn't violating the bakers religious beliefs, because selling goods to gay people doesn't facilitate the gay lifestyle, nor does it translate into an endorsement of homosexuality... Therefore, if the baker refuses to serve gay people in general, that is discrimination against gay people and it just flat out wrong.

    From what I gather, this law isn't designed to allow businesses to freely discriminate against various groups of people they don't like or disagree with, but to protect them from being forced to facilitate or participate in, an event or activity that truly violates or compromises their religious principals and beliefs. It's kind of like being a second amendment advocate that owns a gun shop, who overhears someone on the phone saying they wanted to shoot one of their neighbors, and then refusing to sell them a revolver 5 minutes later. It comes down to a persons morals and beliefs, and as long as we aren't talking about a life or death situations, nobody should be forced to have to violate either of them in order to make a living.
    i disagree 100% saying they are different. WE ALL must play by the same rule not get special treatment. Im a Christian and at no time would i be stupid enough to think i get special treatment because of my religion. Not to mention theres NOTHING in my religion that says I have to open up a business and not provide service to others that disagree with me and if i do im a sinner lol

    so you think refusing gay service at a bakery is bad and NOT with in reason
    but refusing a wedding cake to gays (even though they give it to everybody else including other religions or non religious weddings which is completely hypocritical) is ok and with in reason of religious freedom

    id like to know whats that is based on?

    also what if the person owns apartments instead?
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    I dont think people should just let others break the law and violate peoples rights . . . some will chose that and thats fine but many wont and thats also a good thing.
    why is this the line, should people ignore robbery, rape, embezzlement, con artists, etc etc
    now of course im not saying all those are equal nor am i suggesting you condone any of these im simply asking what other paths are there for these crimes and why should we let people break the law for one thing and not others?
    while i "personally" agree you dont have to go sue happy and sue everybody, what other LEGAL course is there to fix these CRIMES.

    I mean typically you can make a complaint or press charges and there will be fines or other penalties that could also do the same but Im not aware of other ways to do so.
    If its a civil court issue people are at lest going to go to get reimbursed for thier own lawyer fees.
    the spirit of the country IMO is equal rights.

    Personally when i think "man this country" i think its sad that these bigots still exist in 2015 and that people are still dumb enough to think they get special treatment somehow and get to violate the rights of others.
    The proponents of the homosexual agenda are free to sue under state public accommodations laws. They're free to lose, too, when those laws as applied violate a person's constitutional rights. The Supreme Court has already held in at least two cases that a state public accommodations law did just that. This is a free country--no one can be forced by law to express his approval of homosexuality when he believes it is immoral and unacceptable.

    That is just why the organizers of the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade, which was a public accommodation under state law, did not have to let a homosexual group take part in the parade. That would in effect have amounted to a government-compelled endorsement of that group's views about Irish-Americans, which the organizers did not agree with. The First Amendment guarantees the freedom of speech, and the Court has made very clear that includes the freedom not to speak--not to be compelled to express or endorse views you do not agree with.

    I think the same principle applies to the wedding photographer in the Elane case in New Mexico. The state supreme court got the decision wrong. She was not discriminating against homosexuals--she would gladly have taken other photos of the lesbian who sued her. But being forced by law to photograph the woman's homosexual wedding amounted to the state government compelling her to celebrate the event in her creatively arranged photographs--to make a personal expression, in artistic form--of a view she disagrees with. It's a short step from that to forcing a painter who considers homosexuality immoral to depict two homosexual clients in an erotically suggestive embrace, on the ground that because he occasionally sells a portrait he is a "business," and therefore a public accommodation.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The proponents of the homosexual agenda are free to sue under state public accommodations laws. They're free to lose, too, when those laws as applied violate a person's constitutional rights. The Supreme Court has already held in at least two cases that a state public accommodations law did just that. This is a free country--no one can be forced by law to express his approval of homosexuality when he believes it is immoral and unacceptable.

    That is just why the organizers of the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade, which was a public accommodation under state law, did not have to let a homosexual group take part in the parade. That would in effect have amounted to a government-compelled endorsement of that group's views about Irish-Americans, which the organizers did not agree with. The First Amendment guarantees the freedom of speech, and the Court has made very clear that includes the freedom not to speak--not to be compelled to express or endorse views you do not agree with.

    I think the same principle applies to the wedding photographer in the Elane case in New Mexico. The state supreme court got the decision wrong. She was not discriminating against homosexuals--she would gladly have taken other photos of the lesbian who sued her. But being forced by law to photograph the woman's homosexual wedding amounted to the state government compelling her to celebrate the event in her creatively arranged photographs--to make a personal expression, in artistic form, of a view she disagrees with. It's a short step from that to forcing a painter who considers homosexuality immoral to depict two homosexual clients in an erotically suggestive embrace, on the ground that because he occasionally sells a portrait he is a "business," and therefore a public accommodation.
    "The proponents of the homosexual agenda"

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, you never said what right or rights anti-discrimination laws protect.
    Why, the constitutional right not to feel all icky and invalidated, of course.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovkan View Post
    "The proponents of the homosexual agenda"
    Do you like that phrase? I thought it was so descriptive that I borrowed it from Justice Scalia.

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