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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Yeah, they were. E.g. Advance America » Blog Archive » VICTORY AT THE STATE HOUSE!



    AFA of Indiana was also at the bill signing. You can google them if you want their views on SSM, and their support of this bill.

    And as someone else pointed out above, when Utah passed their version of this bill, they engaged with the LGBT community and wrote into the law protections for them in employment and housing, and there was little controversy when that bill passed. Obviously, Utah refused to include measures that would address some of the other "hard" issues, like when does a restaurant have to host a reception for a SSM or when does a florist have to provide services etc. But there was a compromise.

    Indiana did none of that. The business community warned them of the message they were sending, they gave opponents the finger, and are unsurprisingly paying a price. Boo hooo.....
    I see you could not find a link to such a statement by any responsible official. Your claim remains unsupported. And no, businesses in Indiana will pay no price. That's because there's no more discrimination possible now than there was a week ago.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    so its slimpy a mistake instead of dishonest, that works to either way the fact remains the claim made was false whether there is a "belief" in it or not
    No, you never said what right or rights anti-discrimination laws protect.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I get that businesses want to point out that they serve everyone, but why would businesses actually oppose a law that provides them greater freedom? It's one thing to not practice a right, but it's highly illogical to oppose that right being protected.
    Greater freedom to do what - act in a bigoted manner, just as our ancestors did up to the time civil rights bills were passed?

    There will be some smaller businesses, particularly in small towns that may benefit economically by acting as bigots. Large corporations with diverse employee roles and located in mostly urban areas see the various minority communities as customers they don't wish to offend.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    gee, another waste of tax $ as scotus will have to slap this stupid crap down.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Greater freedom to do what - act in a bigoted manner, just as our ancestors did up to the time civil rights bills were passed?
    Decide who they will conduct business with. If someone does not consent to commence in trade with someone they have the right to say no and that right should be protected like all other rights.

    There will be some smaller businesses, particularly in small towns that may benefit economically by acting as bigots. Large corporations with diverse employee roles and located in mostly urban areas see the various minority communities as customers they don't wish to offend.
    That would seem to be saying that the threat of such behavior is extremely small.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-29-15 at 03:52 PM.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    gee, another waste of tax $ as scotus will have to slap this stupid crap down.
    Indiana and other states passed RFRA at the recommendation of SCOTUS.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Decide who they will conduct business with. If someone does not consent to commence in trade with someone they have the right to say no and that right should be protected like all other rights.
    waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

    then that person can take and exercise their right to commence in trade with NOBODY.

    if you are a public-serving business, you can't discriminate against protected classes. time to get over it.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    What you disagree with does not matter. The people of each state--not you--get to decide what things they want to make public accommodations in their laws. Many states go far beyond the easy, obvious applications you mentioned. Even federal public accommodations law prohibits, for example, refusing to serve blacks in a restaurant--and has for half a century now.
    Many states may go to far, but that does not mean that it makes the legal protection given in actual public accommodations (like the ones I mentioned) should be scrapped.

    I may be worse than the most evil liberal, as an atheist social democrat, but I think legal protection from unlawful discrimination is totally acceptable but there have to be limitations.

    For example, in the Netherlands there are very strict catholic and very strict protestant schools. I think it is perfectly reasonable for them to not hire a flaming homosexual atheist married to another man who is a heavily tattooed butch man in women's clothes. A school should be allowed to hire someone that fits with the rules and regulations/code of conduct of that school.

    But when a halal Muslim butcher/green grocer refuses to serve an ultra orthodox Jew then that should be prohibited. Or a supermarket refusing someone because they are gay (and for no other reason whatsoever). That kind of discrimination should be forbidden. But people should not try to be extremist about their views. Reason should be the norm and if there is a conflict one should let a judge decide or bring it to the appropriate authorities and they will sort it out.

    It is a sad thing when the boy scouts have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to not have openly gay troop leaders in their organisation. Where I would applaud them if they would choose to do that, they should not be forced to do so if that goes against the rules of that organisation.

    But that does not mean that companies should have that same right (except under very specific exceptions). For example, one of those exceptions should be that if you are a bible shop you should have the right to not hire an atheist but if that atheist wants to buy a bible in that shop, that shop should not be allowed to deny selling him a bible based on him being an atheist.

    I might be liberal, but the non-discrimination laws should not be absolute. Sometimes companies should have the right to not hire specific people if that totally clashes with their core values or practices.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

    then that person can take and exercise their right to commence in trade with NOBODY.

    if you are a public-serving business, you can't discriminate against protected classes. time to get over it.
    I have this thing where I don't get over human right violations. Call me what you will for that, but yeah, it kind of just bugs me forever.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I have this thing where I don't get over human right violations. Call me what you will for that, but yeah, it kind of just bugs me forever.
    you also have the freedom and right to go to another country that affords you the right to discriminate in public accommodation commerce, if it means so much to you.

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