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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1281
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    When the corporate types protest legislative action - the Repubs may, I repeat MAY, start to think a bit deeper before passing certain bills.

    Angie's List canceling Eastside expansion over RFRA

    The continuing blowback over Indiana's new "religious freedom" law hit home Saturday, with Indianapolis-based Angie's List announcing it is canceling a $40 million headquarters expansion.

    The decision is a direct result of passage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, co-founder and chief executive officer Bill Oesterle said Saturday.

    The proposed expansion of the online consumer ratings service was touted to add 1,000 good-paying jobs over five years and help revitalize a struggling Eastside neighborhood.

    "Angie's List is open to all and discriminates against none," Oesterle said, "and we are hugely disappointed in what this bill represents."
    Then there are the 'nice' people defending their 'religious liberty''
    One Restaurant Already Celebrated ‘Religious Liberty’ By Turning Away Gays
    'The business owner, who would not give his name or the name of his business, said he had told some LGBT “people” that equipment was broken in his restaurant and he couldn’t serve them even though it wasn’t and other people were already eating at the tables. “So, yes, I have discriminated,” he told RadioNOW 100.9 hosts. The hosts were surprised the owner said he was okay with discriminating.
    “Well, I feel okay with it because it’s my place of business, I pay the rent, I’ve built it with all my money and my doing. It’s my place; I can do whatever I want with it,” he said. “They can have their lifestyle and do their own thing in their own place or with people that want to be with them.”
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Which says "it depends."

    In the "hard" cases, the law appears to care very little (appropriately) about the person's conscience. The Indiana law itself is clear enough. The court looks to see if the action required:

    (A) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and
    (B) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest

    And, if republicans want to tell their supporters the law will allow businesses and individuals opposed to SSM to discriminate against homosexuals, then I'm not going to cry a single tear if they're called out for their bigotry. The business community told them the message they were sending to the rest of the country, the legislature rejected efforts to write in protections against LGBT, they raised funds on the premise that the bill allowed discrimination and now they're in the bed they made, even if as you're claiming the bill in fact provides no protection from "those who support homosexual marriage." Pander to anti-gay bigots, that comes with a cost. Sorry.
    The claims you cite have not been made.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    None of your diatribe changes the facts. If a business opens itself to the public they have to comply with the laws. Sure....excluding one person would be hard to show a violation...but if there is a pattern it becomes pretty easy.
    And the law acts as I said it does - since you're wanting to quote facts.

    The law does not yet identify bigotry and racism as a criminal offense.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    It looks like there are some business owners who see the various Religious Freedom bills as expanding business opportunities

    'We Serve Everyone' campaign takes off in wake of Ind. 'religious freedom' law
    A website originally meant as a way to help Indianapolis businesses market their openness to all customers has spread like wildfire to 23 states and several major cities, including New York and Los Angeles.

    But the site's creator, Josh Driver, said it wasn't until he saw businesses from Valparaiso, his hometown, get involved that the impact of his new creation, OpenForService.org, really hit him.

    "When there were some (Valparaiso) businesses that kind of stepped up that way - that's just kind of awesome," Driver said.

    Business.jpg

    Driver created stickers and online badges saying "We Serve Everyone" that businesses, churches and other groups can buy and use from the website to promote the fact that they're willing serve anyone, no matter their sexual orientation.

    Driver originally dreamed up the idea just for Indianapolis businesses. His friends helped spread the word, however, and businesses across Indiana and in other states started buying them.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  5. #1285
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    If I remember correctly(?) the "state interest" justification given for trampling on the rights of this organization was that women would benefit from leadership and networking opportunties, and that would in turn benefit the state. This pretty much indicates that no private organizations are safe from government intrusion.
    I wouldn't go that far. If a poker group or book club with a couple dozen members doesn't want women, blacks, homosexuals, or whatever as members, I don't read Roberts or the Court's other decisions on state public accommodations laws to require them to let these people in. Nor do fraternities have to admit women, for example. Despite the best efforts of leftists--many of whom, ironically, call themselves "liberals"--the First Amendment freedom of association still exists. So does the implied right of privacy (which is the basis for the right to abortion) that the Court also discussed in the Jaycees case. If it were up to these junior gauleiters, you couldn't have a damned dinner party in your own home without including at least one member of every grievance group on your guest list.

  6. #1286
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    What? I mean.. what? How is what I wrote a dodge? If you mean by dodge I pointed out where you were going wrong, then I'm not sure if you have a grasp?

    Tim-

    easy a question was asked and a dodge was given since no answer was provided to the question that was actually asked and the reply was just made up fantasy, falsehoods and deflections.
    Maybe in the next post you will answer directly and not try to talk around it.

    A claim was made (not by me) that there are laws that force people to serve gays. I pointed out the fact that was wrong. Then i was told I was wrong so I simply asked "what law forces me to serve you cause you are gay"

    so again I will ask "what law forces me to serve you cause you are gay"?
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The law does not yet identify bigotry and racism as a criminal offense.
    Well, it should! Anything that makes another human being feel icky and invalidated--even if it's just slurring them in a joke--should be a felony!! And I don't care about some old outdated constatution. We shouldn't hesitate to ignore that stupid thing whenever bad people are hiding behind it!!! After all, our president ignores the constatution all the time, and all us good people know how wonderful he is.

  8. #1288
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Dude, you said this and I quote in your widget scenario:


    Now I know you have trouble with language and all, but let me try and explain this to you. You are asking me to show you a law that says you must do something, in this case, force you to sell widgets to a gay man. With me so far? Now, I showed you that laws don't do that, and as such, I could not possibly show you a law that says you must sell me widgets because laws don't do this. Still with me? So, what you're doing is setting the opposing viewpoint (mine in this case and all others that have followed along with you) up for a challenge they cannot win, but not because you have some superior insight into the law or even this issue, but because you're asking me and others to solve a problem that DOES NOT EXIST. See how that works? I pointed out to you and with this post you acknowledge that laws don't force people to do things, they inform you of what you're not allowed to do, so by setting up your scenario the way you did, you asked me to support your strawman, and of course when I could not, you claim victory. This is what you ALWAYS do.

    So, now that we've established the error in your premise (Again that laws inform of what not to do, rather than what you can do) shall we (Really meaning you and you alone) debate the topic with a little more integrity and honesty?


    Tim-

    my question was based off of what somebody else claimed, it wasnt my premise . . . .
    like i said, context and read the thread, so the error was the assumption in the post above . . nothing i did was in error lol

    here ill give you an example of the error the post above makes and what its factually wrong.

    somebody says " 5 + 5 = 36"

    i tell them it factually does not, they argue it does

    so then i make a post asking if anybody can tell me how 5 + 5 = 36

    then the post above comes in and tells me that I am wrong because 5 + 5 does not equal 36

    yes, i know, this is what happens when context is ignored lol
    but thank you for proving me right and supporting the fact i posted earlier, there is NO law that forces me to sell to gays
    facts win again
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  9. #1289
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by freeRadical View Post
    Yes...

    then you and your store will be guilty of breaking the law, violating her rights and engaging in illegal discrimination
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Then what do you cal it if Christians are assessed fines and find themselves locked in legal battles over being allowed to decline certain clients?
    same thing i call it when ANYBODY is assessed fines and find themselves locked in legal battles over breaking the law and or infringing on people rights

    i call it stupid people choosing to break the law

    why would i call it anythign else unless i want to be dishonest
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