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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    It is NOT identical to the Fed law, or Illinois law. All Indiana had to do would be to copy's Illinois law, but they didn't. They wrote their own which is much broader and has much fewer protections in it. Indy's RFRA is much different. The Indiana GOP Legislators and Pence just got caught pandering to extremists in the GOP.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    You mean he is trying to sooth the ninnies who of the mob of ignorati who are soliciting fear and loathing, and dampen the terror of the cowed business community. Read the law bucko, no substantive difference.
    Bucko? LOL

    Indeed, as Gov. Pence provided in his statement yesterday: “Fortunately, in the 1990s Congress passed, and President Clinton signed, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act—limiting government action that would infringe upon religion to only those that did not substantially burden free exercise of religion absent a compelling state interest and in the least restrictive means.” See Gov. Mike Pence signs ‘religious freedom’ bill in private.

    The flaw in this implication is that it is misleading for several reasons. The federal act was deemed inapplicable to state actions. Consequently, several states have copied the federal act or have adopted similar legislation. A fair collection of all religious freedom statutes and court decisions can be found here. (Hats off to Liberty Counsel for making the effort to compile this list and publish it.) Upon my quick scan, Indiana’s version of the bill most resembles a similar law passed in Texas in 1999 but even that bill contains significant limitations that Indiana’s does not.

    What is clear is that Indiana has not copied the federal legislation or those passed by other states, but has instead added more expansive language as seen below. The IRFRA adds several clauses which rightly give pause to the endless possibilities of using religion and religious freedom as a sword and a shield.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    It's not imaginary at all. There have been cases of gays and their kids denied medical service even in non "RFRA" states, where no local ordinance forbids it. Now 12 indiana counties had forbid this abhorrent behavior, while this law attempts to undo 40+ years of progress by cities like indianapolis to put an end to such discrimination. That is the entire intent. Religious fanatics will do whatever they can get away with. These are the same tyrants who were behind the SSM ban and sodomy laws and police brutality and so on, down the years.

    Even the freaking NFL is talking of relocating its combine. When your public policy is too regressive for the NFL, it's time to shelve the entire state government, clean slate
    Rather than accept my lengthy and accurate comparisons of REAL discrimination to the delusional world created by gays and liberals, you resort to scraping the bottom of the complaint barrel. In a nation of at least 10,000,000 gays and lesbians, and millions of businesses, what are the odds that any of them (or their kids) will be denied medical treatment because of their sexual orientation - somewhere between 1 or 2 in 10,000,000 or zero in 10,000,000.

    Please provide cases, especially in last 20 years, where this has occurred. I suppose if you keep telling yourself the same mantra, over and over, that discrimination by business is a pervasive problem and create a dream world where you are in a real battle ... well, then I suppose you don't want or need facts.

    And, by the way, you do know who has ACTUALLY done the discrimination that does exist: government. The military and many police force cultures are far more discriminatory than a little baker or photographer plying their trade.

    Sssshhh...

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    I don't think the bill mentions gay people at all. You are misinformed. The bill addresses religious freedom.
    No, not misinformed. Sanctioned "religious" bigotry, nothing less. They have already lost some business, I hope they lose a lot more. I read in Texass a similar law supported a cop who wouldn't work a gay pride parade. Very nice, I'm sure God approves.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
    No, not misinformed. Sanctioned "religious" bigotry, nothing less. They have already lost some business, I hope they lose a lot more. I read in Texass a similar law supported a cop who wouldn't work a gay pride parade. Very nice, I'm sure God approves.
    Most certainly

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    It differs from the federal law and the RFRA laws passed in most states. Governor Mike Pence says the Indiana legislature will convene this week to "clarify" the law (bring it into compliance with federal law).
    Well, no. The aim would be to strengthen the language to make it more difficult for people to mischaracterize it, as you are doing here with the "bring it into compliance with federal law" nonsense.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The state law at issue in a third Supreme Court decision on this subject defined the Jaycees, an organization with several hundred thousand members, as a public accommodation.

    You are talking about those essential places, but many state public accommodations laws are talking about much more.
    If I remember correctly(?) the "state interest" justification given for trampling on the rights of this organization was that women would benefit from leadership and networking opportunties, and that would in turn benefit the state. This pretty much indicates that no private organizations are safe from government intrusion.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    I don't hear him backtracking on George SteXXXXXopolis, this morning.
    Pence did not answer directly when asked six times on This Week with George Stephanopoulos whether under the law it would be legal for a merchant to refuse to serve gay customers.


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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Whether you think those things were public accommodations doesn't matter. What matters--and what mattered to the people who were forced to defend themselves at great expense--is that the state laws involved considered them that. The state law at issue in a third Supreme Court decision on this subject defined the Jaycees, an organization with several hundred thousand members, as a public accommodation.

    You are talking about those essential places, but many state public accommodations laws are talking about much more. Almost any difficult question can be made to seem simple if you ignore enough of the troublesome details.
    Sorry, but cost of defense is irrelevant IMHO. That is an issue of that particular state and as said, I disagree with some things being called a public accommodation.
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Please see #1090.
    Which says "it depends."

    In the "hard" cases, the law appears to care very little (appropriately) about the person's conscience. The Indiana law itself is clear enough. The court looks to see if the action required:

    (A) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and
    (B) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest

    And, if republicans want to tell their supporters the law will allow businesses and individuals opposed to SSM to discriminate against homosexuals, then I'm not going to cry a single tear if they're called out for their bigotry. The business community told them the message they were sending to the rest of the country, the legislature rejected efforts to write in protections against LGBT, they raised funds on the premise that the bill allowed discrimination and now they're in the bed they made, even if as you're claiming the bill in fact provides no protection from "those who support homosexual marriage." Pander to anti-gay bigots, that comes with a cost. Sorry.

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