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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    See, as Phys says, it's not about you. It's not about "forcing" you. It's about protecting minorities from being ostracized from society. If you really can't view any political questions in terms of anything but your own gain, then you have nothing useful to contribute and no one should listen to you.
    No one can ostracize someone from society.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No one can ostracize someone from society.
    Not in a 1 on 1 interaction, but that's not what we're talking about. When you reduce discrimination to a single interpersonal interaction, you miss why it matters.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by freeRadical View Post
    Please define public accomodation. Is a grocery store a public accomodation? How about a clothing store? A hardware store? A hair dresser?
    Since this thread is about Indiana, here is their definition:

    IC 22-9-1-3
    Definitions
    (m) "Public accommodation" means any establishment that caters or offers its services or facilities or goods to the general public. Indiana Code 22-9-1



    So to answer you questions. Grocery store = Yes. Clothing Store = Yes. Hardware Store = Yes. Hair Dresser = Yes.


    >>>>

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Not in a 1 on 1 interaction, but that's not what we're talking about. When you reduce discrimination to a single interpersonal interaction, you miss why it matters.
    I realize the statement is not supposed to be taken literally, but even in how you are using it even their family and friends would have to be party to it.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Whatever dude..........play your games elsewhere.
    No games, just truth.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    That has nothing to do with your choices. Nothing. This is what you (plural) choose not to understand. And furthermore, something else you (plural) choose not to understand is this:

    THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU.
    It's not about me? LOL, THAT is what I have been telling you for the last two posts, ever since you demanded I give "proof" of a personal experience that I NEVER claimed that I had. Are you normally like this?

    Nor is it really even about the businesses that are already starting to discriminate.

    This is about LGBTs who face discrimination, bullying, hatred, and disenfranchisement from hateful people who are given the power to hate.
    This is about people who suffer a much higher rate of suicide because of this.
    This is about people who are legally forbidden from expressing their love the same way that straight couples are allowed to.
    Nice soapboxing, but you forgot to mention that its about apple pie, coca-cola, and the ten commandments.

    It's not about any of those things. It's about the few percent of the American people who were (most likely) born with abnormal longings and attractions, and their incessant demands that others pretend and then repeatedly affirm they are totally "normal". And like any minority who is, in fact, not a part of the normal or typical (and can never be), their insecurity drives them to blame and demonize fictional oppressors. It is a psychological void that can never be filled.

    Now real discrimination is the era of Jim Crow, segregation, and thousands of lynchings. It is when a black man was not permitted to enroll in a public college, who couldn't get a job that amounted to more than that of a bell hop or janitor, or when his church was burned and his housing relegated to unheated and kerosene lit shacks. Real discrimination was when a black dancer or singer at a white club was not permitted to sit at a table, and who had to eat in the Kitchen during his/her breaks. Real discrimination was when no hotel in a City accepted black lodgers, which required them to sleep on tour buses or lodge with black families. THAT my friend, is REAL discrimination.

    Today LGBT face next to nothing, other than State acknowledgement of "marriage" (soon to be ended in the remaining states). They make more money than hetrosexuals, they work in every industry at every level (including CEOs), they are not (and never have been) excluded in any housing, hotels, restaurants, state schools, or relegated to the work of bell hops and janitors. Even the worst era, the raiding of gay bath-houses and being arrested for solicitation in public parks is NOTHING compared to what blacks went through.

    And today, even that is history. Seriously, who ever heard of even a smattering of rental discrimination or 'over-pricing' to gays? Who has ever heard of restaurants routinely (or even occasionally) refusing to serve a gay?

    You think this is about you? And what rights YOU have? That is the living definition of narcissism. You choose to believe that the imaginary oppression you might face at not having power over people whose behavior you don't like is more important than the real oppression that LGBTs face every day of their lives from ***holes who choose not to follow basic, common-sense standards of decent human behavior.
    Actually I think its about the insecurity and imaginary oppression that LGBTs gin themselves into believing. Its about the narcissism of gays who are so insecure about their own identity that they crave recognition and need to declare their "pride". It's about the lack of a gay equivalent to whites only Woolworth counters, and the drive to find someone, somewhere, in a nation of 310,000,000 who can prove their "oppression"... a small baker in Oregon or a lone Photographer in New Mexico to pillory.

    But guess what. This is 2015. And the same Constitution that you think gives businesses the right to discriminate, gives LGBTs and their allies the right to LOUDLY tell the ***holes to go to hell. And that is exactly what we intend to do.
    Of course you do...you just have to find the assholes.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    So being told off for bigotry is the same as being denied basic services and the state government going out of its way to target you for discrimination, got it!
    You suffer from an impoverished imagination, as well as offering us an unusually lame straw man. To wit, I answered an inquiry by stating: "I have never allowed myself to be in a position to be persecuted. Like any potential PC victim, I never state my actual views on certain issues around gays (most of whom are intolerant)."

    Why? Because to do so (especially when I was employed) would have resulted in a variety of unpleasant experiences, including, but not limited to, destroyed friendships and destroyed working relationships (which might have resulted in unemployment). And, as I stated, I don't even do so with the few gays I know well.

    But like Phys251 penchant for loaded questions, you ask (infer) about a comparison (claim) that I never made - the only one comparing my life to your belief in a (imaginary) denial of basic services to gays and "out of your way targeting" of gays by state governments is YOU. Nice try, but a tad too transparent.
    Last edited by maxparrish; 03-29-15 at 12:37 AM.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    I asked if you were just making a drive-by snarl, you replied:

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    libertarian is a joke because it can never grasp that "liberty" for one group actually only creates oppression of another, all while proving no expansion of liberty whatsoever on the part of the first group, because they were never made to sacrifice anything to begin with. Oh boo hoo, you're a landlord who can't evict someone over something they are born with and that makes no difference, oh god no!
    I believe that rates as a snarl, although well padded with nonsense. Best I can tell, you think "oppression" is anything that you don't like due to someone's rightful exercise of their liberty. The rest of your comments are incomprehensible.

    This issue perfectly exposes the hypocrisy and uselessness of that entire mindset. I see clearly now that libertarians are just republicans in denial
    Actually it perfectly proves that there are some mindsets that are so underdeveloped that they are little more than "me hate" jeremiads against libertarians and republicans.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    You suffer from an impoverished imagination, as well as offering us an unusually lame straw man. To wit, I answered an inquiry by stating: "I have never allowed myself to be in a position to be persecuted. Like any potential PC victim, I never state my actual views on certain issues around gays (most of whom are intolerant)."

    Why? Because to do so (especially when I was employed) would have resulted in a variety of unpleasant experiences, including, but not limited to, destroyed friendships and destroyed working relationships (which might have resulted in unemployment). And, as I stated, I don't even do so with the few gays I know well.

    But like Phys251 penchant for loaded questions, you ask (infer) about a comparison (claim) that I never made - the only one comparing my life to your belief in a (imaginary) denial of basic services to gays and "out of your way targeting" of gays by state governments is YOU. Nice try, but a tad too transparent.
    It's not imaginary at all. There have been cases of gays and their kids denied medical service even in non "RFRA" states, where no local ordinance forbids it. Now 12 indiana counties had forbid this abhorrent behavior, while this law attempts to undo 40+ years of progress by cities like indianapolis to put an end to such discrimination. That is the entire intent. Religious fanatics will do whatever they can get away with. These are the same tyrants who were behind the SSM ban and sodomy laws and police brutality and so on, down the years.

    Even the freaking NFL is talking of relocating its combine. When your public policy is too regressive for the NFL, it's time to shelve the entire state government, clean slate

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